Author Topic: Bitten by the sidescroller bug... (Read 61963 times)

LoTekK · « **Reply #50 on:** December 17, 2009, 08:27:46 am »

What might help with the firing animation is a slight alteration to the the timing. Try having the guns straighten out before/during the "crouch". Right now it feels a little odd because it's almost as if the bot is sliding forward in order for the weapon to stabilise/straighten. Having it straighten earlier also allows you to make the recoil kick in earlier as well.

WM · « **Reply #51 on:** December 17, 2009, 05:15:17 pm »

Quote from: Howard Day on December 17, 2009, 01:54:33 am

...
Okay, and he idle animation:
...

Right now the it seems as though he's flinching/jerking himself around. Instead of having the legs moving the body in the idle, have the body slightly rock, which in turn moves the legs. The legs should follow the body's movement.

Not only am I astounded by the quality of your work, but how fast you can produce it! It's insanely productive!

CrazyMLC · « **Reply #52 on:** December 17, 2009, 09:01:13 pm »

Maybe you want to add in a looking animation with the little headlight on the front?

For an actual idle animation in an actual game you probably want to make a long idle animation along with a few little quirks to lead up to, like standing for a while, then a random quirk, like looking around.

You might want to make a starting/stopping walking animation, you could use the stopping right before the shooting to get rid of that slight choppiness.

(Getting so attached to this little guy.

)

Howard Day · « **Reply #53 on:** December 18, 2009, 01:14:39 am »

Jakten , LoTeKK: Both excellent suggestions. Here's the re-vamped firing animation...

WM: Good crit - I've attempted to address that here:

- much less movement overall.
CrazyMLC: Multiple idle animations is a great idea. I'll get on that after I do the next thing on my list - the spider-bot projectile, and impact animations...
Everything stuck together.

Thoughts?

CrazyMLC · « **Reply #54 on:** December 18, 2009, 02:23:24 am »

Seems much more like an idling robot than a hyper-active child.

Shooting animation looks much better as well.

Really great work, always a treat to look at. Here's hoping for more!

LoTekK · « **Reply #55 on:** December 18, 2009, 02:33:53 am »

Hell yeah! That's feeling all powerful and punchy now.

Also, I'm generally a fan of OTT muzzle flashes, so the one you've got warms my heart, being all blindingly-bright and huge. :p

Howard Day · « **Reply #56 on:** December 18, 2009, 05:15:48 am »

Thanks, guys. I'm glad I'm finally starting to hit all the right notes.

And here's where I got with the weapon effects...

Thoughts?

EDIT: Stuck another option for the weapon blast up there.

Jakten · « **Reply #57 on:** December 18, 2009, 05:41:20 am »

Ohh man! That firing animation has so much power now, I love it!

The effects look great but the energy it shoots looks kinda noisy, it might not look to bad up against its proper background though. I gues it depends on what kind of energy its shooting as well, right now it kind of looks liek electricity which is fine if that's what you wanted. I think if you wanted it to look like fire it should have more flow to it.

I think the reason why the idle animation looks twitchy is because it has a recognizable beginning and end. I think it would look nice some where in between the 2 you posted with a seamless loop. I liked how the legs seemed to move randomly in the first which you didn't really do in the second one.

By the way are you acctually planning on programming this into a game or is this just generally a mock up? Because I really want to play this!

Also do you have ideas for a main character? I was wondering if you plan to take inspiration for him or her from Baidir as well.

Lord Ash · « **Reply #58 on:** December 19, 2009, 12:16:44 am »

thank you so much, I have been trying to get here with bryce and poser for a long time. I am glad to see other using 3d to help them, I am doing my best to understand what is different about these from mine, and between all the different versions.

Howard Day · « **Reply #59 on:** December 19, 2009, 12:19:25 am »

Jakten: Thanks! I stuck an updated version of the fired bolt in the last post. I agree with you - it looks really noisy and undefined. I will revisit that idle animation tonight. I have a couple ideas of specific animations I can do to split up the idle animations...
As of right now, this is just a mock-up. I'll see how much farther I get...that will decide whether or not I try and put an actual game together. As for the main character, I have a confession to make - I don't have a lot of character skills. I may try and put a human character together, but I have some ideas closer to a dude-in-a-suit, which would make the animation a hell of a lot easier for me. But I'm more than willing to try and expand my skills.
Lord Ash: Not sure I understood your post...are you asking for a rundown of all the different 3d programs?
Anyhow, here are 2 more variations on the bolt impact, as well as a mid-air collision version. I stuck the original in there for reference...

Thoughts?

CrazyMLC · « **Reply #60 on:** December 19, 2009, 12:54:05 am »

Well, I would imagine the smoke would inherit the velocity of the projectile, meaning it would fly over to the left. Also, most explosions make big shockwaves, so the smoke would be subject to a lot of force, and remember, hot air rises. I'd imagine this plasma smoke (HUZZAH!) would be super heated, so it would also be rising pretty quickly.

The last thing I dislike about the smoke is that is seems to be a lot of blocks of smoke compacted together, smoke is a gas, so it could be seen as a large solid object with parts separating off of it.
(My best example I have on hand):

(Hooray for 3 year old easytoon animation!)

Howard Day · « **Reply #61 on:** December 19, 2009, 01:57:28 am »

CrazyMLC: Okay. Here are some updated versions. I also decided to make the big, main explosion less realistic than it's previously been... Curlicues!

And in the environment:

Any better?

WM · « **Reply #62 on:** December 19, 2009, 02:20:55 am »

That smoke is pretty washed out; unless it would go against the specific garaphical style you're working with, I suggest putting some darker purple in there (particularly near the end of the explosion).

ptoing · « **Reply #63 on:** December 19, 2009, 05:23:16 am »

That is true. Explosion smoke usually is very dark, pretty much black.

That said the explosions look really cool, tho I have to say the small lighter stuff you have in front of it at the bottom does nothing for me, I'd like to see how it looks without that.

Conceit · « **Reply #64 on:** December 20, 2009, 01:10:08 am »

all this stuff is looking amazing....really incredible, you're actually making me feel pretty obsolete O_O

I agree about the darker explosion smoke, also if there's any way you could have swirls of smoke as the smoke fades away it will strenghten the effect.

The projectile is the one that needs most help, I would suggest you make it pulse instead of throwing all those particle backwards...think of hotaru's projectile (alt link) in Garou Mark Of the wolves.....

This is slight but I think the way the smoke in the spider's smoke effect also goes too fast from white to dark gray, it looks amateur compared to your energy projectile impact explosion

Howard Day · « **Reply #65 on:** December 21, 2009, 04:11:03 am »

WM: Yeah, good call. I was trying for a more whimsical explosion feel...but that obviously wasn't working.
ptoing: Well, I didn't go all the way black, but I went much darker. A also minimized the white bits in the foreground.

I've also spent hours dicking around with GraphicsGale, trying to get it to interpret the alpha in my exported frames properly. It seems an utter crapshoot - sometimes it will work fine, with no tweaking whatsoever, but sometimes I simply cannot get it to recognize any color but pure white as the transparent color. Which screws up the hotspots on the explosions. I apologize for the anomaly, but I am at my wits end on how to fix the darn thing.
Conceit:Thanks, man. Here's an updated version of the projectile...

And I also did another idle animation - although this is more of a "taunt" animation...

I imagine this being accompanied by a loud electronic roar.
And the new anim in a sequence:

Thoughts?

CrazyMLC · « **Reply #66 on:** December 21, 2009, 04:28:55 am »

Smoke looks much better. Taunt animation is kick-ass.

alspal · « **Reply #67 on:** December 21, 2009, 04:42:09 am »

The first explosion is looking a lot better. I'm not sure about how it contract's after expanding - doesn't make much sense to me? Or do explosions actually do that?

Jakten · « **Reply #68 on:** December 21, 2009, 05:06:00 pm »

Yeah I think when an explosion dies out it usually continues to expand or rise unless it is full of debris then it will sink down with some smoke still rising.

I think it looks okay though, usually when something explodes the smoke doesn't dissipate very fast and he can't keep the smoke on screen for very long because it will be distracting. I think it might look better if it dissipated outwards though, possibly rolling upwards.

Some reference
Another with falling debris

micintexp · « **Reply #69 on:** December 21, 2009, 06:23:52 pm »

May I ask a question so all of these are made from GraphicsGale O.O?

Thats so damn awesome for making it with such a program :O

ptoing · « **Reply #70 on:** December 21, 2009, 06:41:27 pm »

Looking much better

About the transparency issue, couldn't you render it in max against a background colour which you don't use otherwise without the stuff antialiasing on the outside?
That should fix your problems pretty well i would say

(In case it works)

Opacus · « **Reply #71 on:** December 21, 2009, 11:57:15 pm »

I think this isn't really allowed, but, I just want to express my love for this.

I don't have any critique, just love.

The models are amazing. Well designed, great colour scheme, fantastic animation. Reminds me of Larwick's rustbug, cept in 3d.
Really, really cool.

Howard Day · « **Reply #72 on:** December 22, 2009, 08:09:22 am »

CrazyMLC, Opacus:Thanks, glad you like!
alspal:yeah, it's a function and result of how I was doing the particle effects... here's an update.

Jakten:Thanks for the ref!
micintexp : The images are assembled in Graphicsgale and exported to GIF format. They're initially generated in 3DSMax 2009.
ptoing: Sort of. The problem is that these particle systems use filtered textures for the explosions, and if I turn that off it looks really bad. With that on, however, I have no control over the interaction with the background. At this point I've just turned the alpha off.
So, made a new enemy! Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the BUMBLEBOT!

endless_dark · « **Reply #73 on:** December 22, 2009, 08:21:43 am »

I see awesome stuff here, keep it on cause this is gettin epic

Opacus · « **Reply #74 on:** December 22, 2009, 10:23:30 am »

I think you're having some transparecy problems with the explosions.
Your background is probably white, and lightest colour in the explosion is also white. So now there's some strange holes in the explosions.

CrazyMLC · « **Reply #75 on:** December 22, 2009, 10:28:55 am »

I think the wings should be translated into 3D rather than 2D effect.

Howard Day · « **Reply #76 on:** December 22, 2009, 05:51:28 pm »

endless_dark: Thanks, glad you like it.
Opacus: Yeah, as I mentioned in my previous posts, I've been having some very annoying problems in GraphicsGale when I import and try and color-reduce to b-bit. I've updated the explosions, but now all the smoke seems fun-kay. Can't win for losing, it seems.
CrazyMLC: Uhhh, what? They are a 3d object - twin rotor blades to be precise. Here's the animation at a higher res, and one of the frames from the animation...

Does that help explain what's going on? I think I may have overdone it a bit. If it's not immediately obvious what the moving parts are, I may have to reconsider how this is put together...

CaKsTeR · « **Reply #77 on:** December 22, 2009, 07:52:55 pm »

There's a pause in the blades at the loop frame, breaks the sequence a bit.

Looking amazing though

Sherman Gill · « **Reply #78 on:** December 22, 2009, 08:20:27 pm »

In the small animation it's impossible to see that the near rotor overlaps the robot. If you make that more visible I think that will solve your clarity issues?

Howard Day · « **Reply #79 on:** December 22, 2009, 10:05:37 pm »

Better?

ptoing · « **Reply #80 on:** December 22, 2009, 10:10:53 pm »

Much better. You still have issues with the transparency tho. Hm, idea. Couldn't you render stuff twice? once render the image without alpha or whatever, and then render a 2nd pass where the model or particles are fully white and the background is black or other way round and then use that as alpha mask.

Howard Day · « **Reply #81 on:** December 23, 2009, 03:27:59 am »

Well, ptoing, the actual rendered frames exported from MAX are fine. The only transparent issues I'm having are in regards to showing you fine folks the animated results of my work...a minor annoyance when it comes down to it.
So - first pass on the firing animation:

Thoughts?

ptoing · « **Reply #82 on:** December 23, 2009, 03:37:22 am »

Shot looking good. For the rotors I would probably render them seperatly and have them be 50% or so transparent in game on top of the sprite, I think that would look more effective.

CrazyMLC · « **Reply #83 on:** December 23, 2009, 04:44:06 am »

Ahhh, the rotors make much more sense now.

I think it would look much better if the hydrolic cylinder was holding the gun in place, so the awkward recoil that I see doesn't happen, and the bee just swings back a bit. I'm also thinking a smaller 'caliber' should be shot from the swarms of bees, maybe more machine gun style?

Zoggles · « **Reply #84 on:** December 23, 2009, 07:22:29 am »

I haven't actually commented here, but have been lurking and watching the development. I seriously love the style you have got going on here particularly you mechanised enemies.

The Bumblebot: I love the overall composition and especially the design. Nice powerful sting that beast has. As for CrazyMLC's comment about the smaller caliber.. I think that would best be left to a Waspbot cousin of this one. The rotors still have slight readability issues though.. I had to look at all the various images of it to fully appreciate them. Are both rotors spinning the same direction? Just wondering if making one clockwise the other anti-clockwise would help or hinder.

The Deathbot: Beautiful movement - especially the 'taunt' animation. The only thing that I find awkward is the huge amount of flash on the hull. It seems rather excessive for the size of gun mounted on the top. While it might give a great effect when you only have the one enemy (like you did at the time) I can't help but feel this 'huge' flash will diminish the fear induced by potentially bigger weaponry on later enemies. In fact, the guns do seem smaller than the cannon on the bumblebot yet the kick and flash are much stronger.

Buildings/Scenery: The almost toy-like appearance works so well and adds so much charm. I can almost imagine you posted scenes as a panoramic 360° scene from walking around the top one such large building.

-Z-

Ultimaodin · « **Reply #85 on:** December 24, 2009, 04:53:51 pm »

Okay I want to say how simply amazing this is!

for the bug bot I'd suggest making the wings thinner but longer. This should then improve the readability, not to mention it usually gives off a false perseptions that te blades spin faster. (due to the fact that the outer circle of the blades have a father distance to travel in the same period of time.

A for the firing, I think it would be better off with some sort of mini gun or another mini-projectile that doesn't have such a large single shot recoil. (that woul make keeping flight rather difficult.)

Plus the variety of weaponry will make the enemies more unique.

Ok so you got a spider and bee/wasp. Now if only you had a centipede.

Seriously though keep up the good work.

rikfuzz · « **Reply #86 on:** December 24, 2009, 05:06:12 pm »

Quote from: Howard Day on December 23, 2009, 03:27:59 am

Well, ptoing, the actual rendered frames exported from MAX are fine. The only transparent issues I'm having are in regards to showing you fine folks the animated results of my work...a minor annoyance when it comes down to it.

If you mean the ingame sprites are using alpha, then show the animations on a non-transparent background, so your alpha pixels don't go solid. I think you're getting a lot of crit on how the blur looks in the 1bit transparency gif rather than how it'll look ingame.

Howard Day · « **Reply #87 on:** December 24, 2009, 10:58:25 pm »

ptoing: Thanks. That may end up being what I have to do.
CrazyMLC: Thanks. As for the awkward recoil...that's kinda the effect I'm going for. I'm not expecting something called a "BumbleBot" to be particularly badass. I *like* that it looks somewhat unstable.
Zoggles: Thanks. The rotors are counter-rotating right now - that's the only thing that makes sense, given torque issues. As for your (and others) concern that the flash might be to impressive...well, that just means I need to step it up on the big bad boys later on, right?

That is a challenge I think I will enjoy. As for the roof bits - I'll be making and showing some roof edges and transitions to break everything up.
Ultimaodin:Thanks. I kinda like the width of rotors as they are - that they look almost too small to actually keep it in the air, is awesome to me. Really adds in the "bumble" part of the bumblebot. As for the width of the blurred portion of the rotors, good call. I'll narrow that down pronto.
I like the Centipede idea. Maybe for a boss?

Okay, so all the transparency issues have driven me a bit nuts. I've started using another gif-making program to try and get around them. This particular program also supports APNG, so if you have a browser that supports it, you should see correct-alpha animated version of the GIFs.

How's that work for everyone?

Photocopier · « **Reply #88 on:** December 24, 2009, 11:24:27 pm »

Using opera here and it works fine, good job btw

Lizzrd · « **Reply #89 on:** December 25, 2009, 12:10:35 am »

Looks much better than previous versions.

Howard Day · « **Reply #90 on:** December 25, 2009, 12:55:33 am »

Okay, that's good to hear.
Here's an update of the bumblebot with new rotors..

The projectile for the spiderbot:

And the various explosions...

Thoughts?

Ultimaodin · « **Reply #91 on:** December 25, 2009, 02:06:49 am »

Wow the level of epicness just doubled, and these were already pretty Epic. The new APGN's look sweet. What program are you using for the APNG's? I'm sick of using Jasc animation shop still.

I like the new rotors, they look smaller and don't lap the character much but I find them more distinguishable. Good job.

Conceit · « **Reply #92 on:** December 25, 2009, 02:07:05 am »

Did you only apply alpha to that projectile? I have to say that projectile is looking much much better, though the opposite is true for the blasts, dont go overboard with the alpha...

Howard Day · « **Reply #93 on:** December 27, 2009, 01:29:37 am »

Ultimaodin: Glad you like. For the APNGs, I'm using GIF Movie Gear - the demo version, currently, but I think I'll purchase the full. I am glad the new rotors read well, it was becoming a major concern of mine...
Conceit: Yep, those are what the exported sprites from MAX look like, just animated. when you say don't go overboard on the alpha on the explosions...what do you mean exactly? The explosions do need to fade out, right? I'm not sure what you meant by this.
Anyhow. Been going kinda slow, just done another couple of play area art pieces.

I think I need to do a projectile for the bumblebot, a taunt/alt idle animation, and a death animation. I also need to come up with another enemy type - on the light/melee only type. I'm thinking something buld around a rolly-polly, with a green lighting taser attached.

Ah, yes. Then I need to make the player character. I've kinda been putting that off because I'm not completely certain about the colors and style, but I think I'm snagged onto an awesome idea and I probably need to run with it.

7321551 · « **Reply #94 on:** December 27, 2009, 02:26:43 am »

I truly like this.
I thought the same thing about the explosions.

Quote from: Howard Day on December 24, 2009, 10:58:25 pm

This one seems sharp when it fades out, and the small clouds are visible as discrete units. Very appealing.

Quote from: Howard Day on December 25, 2009, 12:55:33 am

In comparison, this one seems less sharp, almost airbrushed.

Also, when designing the backgrounds, particularly the buildings, you might want to consider methods of faking perspective utilized by old games, such as the selective angling of elements... here's an example.

Howard Day · « **Reply #95 on:** December 27, 2009, 03:52:16 am »

That demonstrates it perfectly. Luckily, changing one number fixes it handily. I've also lightened up the smoke a bit - It was too realistic as it was, and I kinda liked the...goofy looking version more. Not a big change, but there you go.

And I gave the BumbleBolt a shot.

It's close to the spiderbot, but the real difference will be in the impact animation.

Thoughts?

Conceit · « **Reply #96 on:** December 27, 2009, 06:20:01 am »

what I meant was that I liked the explosions when they faded out by chunks without alpha http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=9591.msg105083#msg105083 it looks unique and pixelart-y.

The alpha fadeout looks more commonplace...I might be alone in that but that's what I think...honestly the new explosions I think have only improved in having darker smoke, the rest looks too unspecific to me. if you were to use the alpha smoke, I think it'd be a better use to have a smoked piece of the floor keep on releasing that translucent smoke for a while, that helps it look realistic (I've been to riots and even small potato bombs leave smoke for a while)

Howard Day · « **Reply #97 on:** December 27, 2009, 08:27:12 am »

Conceit: I see. Well, I'll do another pass and see if I can come up with the look you're expecting.
Anyhow, I did a pass on a bumblebot taunt animation.

Thoughts?

Lizzrd · « **Reply #98 on:** December 27, 2009, 09:51:03 am »

Can't see the images.

Gil · « **Reply #99 on:** December 27, 2009, 06:40:44 pm »

Firefox 2 displays static images instead of animated. Can someone confirm that Firefox 3 shows these?

News:

Author Topic: Bitten by the sidescroller bug... (Read 61963 times)