Official OT-Creativity Thread 2

[Ryumaru]

Helm: the only thing that I could see( and its a major nitpick) is that i believe its unnecessary to have his pecs so defined at the bottom when they are in that stretched position. it almost makes them look fake.
junkboy:
I dare you to fully pixel one of your delectible oekaki pieces.

[junkboy]

Why did you have to DARE me?     Now I feel compelled to do it..

[Helm]

Helm: ... but doing it as nicely as Helm has done isn't an easy feat. Though I've gotta say that when I looked at your sketch I saw more potential for a really nice drawing more in that Jean Giraud/Enki Bilal vein.

Thanks. I try to avoid Moebius worship because it's really overdone as a trend here in europe in comic art circles.

[Ryumaru]

junkboy: infact, I DOUBLE DOG DARE YOU.
Now you dont really have a choice.

[The B.O.B.]

Junkboy: Don't do it, it's a trap! Heh, always refreshing to see  some Bladerunner Pixel/Oekaki art once in a while.

Helm: I'm not digging the calm look in the barbarian's face whatsoever. It's just not believable for me. Even the calmest psychopaths make some sort of weird face for a split second before they slice and dice someone. It's just instinct, no matter how dumb their facial expression may be. Maybe show some teeth, or a small smirk, if he is in fact showing some satisfaction, as the current material doesn't quite display it. Also, the description makes it hard for me to believe as well, seeing as how the front most barbarian also has a calm collective face. Was everyone this calm, during battles of days past, while beefy muscle men paraded half naked, threatening to chop your head off with huge swords?  I wouldn't believe so, even in a mythical sense. Just makes them more robotic, and less interesting.

But I'm no comic expert, so I'll leave it to your own devices to choose what is best. The inking looks great though...

[8bitty]

junkboy those are amazing one of my favourite movies!!!!

[Locrian]

Doppleganger your squirrels were cute. 

Nice non-bladerunner inspired sketches Junkboy.

having trouble making believable whoosh circle for his sling in attack frame.

[ndchristie]

i only have trouble with his stance.  what's he throwing at, his feet?  i know it's all in the wrist, but he should at least be standing to the throw and looking into the distance.  also, slings are thrown underhand for range and overhand for accuracy, but overhead is more for.......movies?  you can't reload or aim that way without totally breaking the flow .

[leroy]

Tried vectoring.



I hate it, except for the clouds, I stole them from Larwick. 

[Faktablad]

I wrote a song where all of the tracks are played on electric bass:

http://media.putfile.com/Chin-Up-No-1

[Locrian]

oh crap.  Thanks for pointing that out Adar..ndchristie.  I should have done more research.  I thought you swung in over head, and swung it around multiple times instead of just one circle, and thought there was one string not two separate strings...  heh.  Good thing I didn't try slinging, I would have ended up with a rock embedded in my face. 

Faktablad, at 1:30, those high pitches, is that what harmonics on bass sound like?  Or are you just plucking the string above the neck?  Didn't know bass could do harmonics, would have expected them to be muddy and dull.  Also where did you get those crashes?  I wanna start recording music again.  But I hate fiddling with stuff to get a good sound.  Whenever I record it sounds like balls.

heres some sketches to keep this post from being artless.  For a bid at a small freelance job doing logo/mascot.  Dunno if I got it yet.
They wanted a yeti with a crocodile head and tail.

[ndchristie]

got frustrated with the page palette at pixel joint (7 colors and only 4 distinct values, two hues and an intermediary blend??) threw it back into photoshop and doodled on it.

tablet pc's are the 21st century napkin

[Helm]

got frustrated with the page palette at pixel joint (7 colors and only 4 distinct values, two hues and an intermediary blend??) threw it back into photoshop and doodled on it.

tablet pc's are the 21st century napkin

small critique: neck connects to where in this picture?

[ndchristie]

small critique: neck connects to where in this picture?

the chin.  Why doesn't yours? 


PS: Oops.

[Helm]

I take it 'oops' means 'I get it now, thank you?'. In the case it doesn't,



Tell me if something isn't clear.

[junkboy]

A case of misinterpretation? This is how I saw it, neck looks alright to me:


.. and since we're posting doodles...

[ndchristie]

yeah no, helm has it right.  it was a careless error as with the low eyes.  the head you've sketched junk works because you've changed the scale and positioning /

another quick doodle, noticed about halfway through that it was very final fantasy, so i sorta embraced that rather than try to fight it.  it is what it is.



Pilenz, the Potagic pirate, poorly proportioned and pretentiously "prepared" in his particolored pantaloons.

[Feron]

in his particolored pantaloons.

Looks female to me, perhaps because i'm used to seeing you draw women more than men, but I think this is still very feminine.

[Atnas]

The face is pretty masculine.

Great body, but I'm not digging the face entirely. It's the tiniest bit bigger than I'd like.

Shrunken:

I gotta say, great design. I love your sketches.

[ndchristie]

unnecessary post.  details relevant to other's posts preserved in their quotes.

in my perfect world we'd all be shaped like ballerinas...

[Helm]

Your sketches keep reverting to the nostril issues of the past that I thought you had resolved!

[Atnas]

Whenever I design an outfit or just sketch 90% of the time it resembles me. I don't know why but it seems like that's the case for a lot of people I know - they draw themselves. So I usually get the ballerina look because I fence and fencing is basically using the legs as you would when dancing - only with supporting timed sword blows so the deltoids in my images are always a little bit bigger than usual.

I just remembered who that sketch reminds me of - Marche from FFTA. Only he's a pirate this time.

[ndchristie]

I just remembered who that sketch reminds me of - Marche from FFTA. Only he's a pirate this time.

spot on - I just sketched a random pose, noticed it was the same - that's what made me realize the ff influence (which continued from there).

unnecessary post.  details relevant to other's posts preserved in their quotes.

[AdamAtomic]

Whenever I design an outfit or just sketch 90% of the time it resembles me. I don't know why but it seems like that's the case for a lot of people I know - they draw themselves. So I usually get the ballerina look because I fence and fencing is basically using the legs as you would when dancing - only with supporting timed sword blows so the deltoids in my images are always a little bit bigger than usual.

I just remembered who that sketch reminds me of - Marche from FFTA. Only he's a pirate this time.

Leonardo Da Vinci talks about that in one of his codexes I think?  Something like "the artist must always fight the urge to include the flaws in their own anatomy in their artwork" or something like that...

[ndchristie]

Whenever I design an outfit or just sketch 90% of the time it resembles me. I don't know why but it seems like that's the case for a lot of people I know - they draw themselves. So I usually get the ballerina look because I fence and fencing is basically using the legs as you would when dancing - only with supporting timed sword blows so the deltoids in my images are always a little bit bigger than usual.

I just remembered who that sketch reminds me of - Marche from FFTA. Only he's a pirate this time.

Leonardo Da Vinci talks about that in one of his codexes I think?  Something like "the artist must always fight the urge to include the flaws in their own anatomy in their artwork" or something like that...

yeah, he had a lot of good ones, Da Vinci.  "fight" i think implies a certain set of goals that are not universally shared, but acknowledging that urge is very important.

I wish i had the ballerina shape, I'm shorter and have a bit more mass than that.  I do have (and am attracted to people who have) large (powerful?) calves though which shows up in my work.  A lot of the traits I tend to put in though are similarly based on what i find attractive, such as weak chins, pouty lips, small breasts, low ears and upturned noses.

[Atnas]

I didn't know Leonardo wrote anything on the subject, I have had no art history to speak of (school classes are a joke) and really haven't thought about reading up on some of this stuff before. I really should, as that's very true. I draw my figures arachnodactylic because my fingers are longer than the norm.

I tend to draw women and men with the traits I see as attractive as well, usually slender males, females with just the right amount of fat, large eyes, noses with a ball on the tip, thin eyebrows, flat chested women, soft slightly wavy hair of a light hue et cetera.

I don't think you should pass off an inconsistency in your work as insignificant merely because it's for fun, It's always nice to master something else. I understand the drawing is small but there's always the 1 px photoshop brush. I think you added unnecessary darkness to the nostrils when you should have instead signified the wings of the nose forming the outline of the black leaving the bottom of the nostril flowing into the upper lip, the angle is too high to see that far into the nose. But if it is just for fun and you keep a lookout for it in the future it doesn't really matter. You could say it's merely style. 

[ndchristie]

unnecessary post.  details relevant to other's posts preserved in their quotes.

the angle is too high to see that far into the nose.

I could be wrong, but I think we've shut that down:

(this photo is actually taken at what I think is a higher angle)

Helm was refering i believe to my desire to show both nostrils, and the fact that the bridge appears collapsed with the nostril flaps heading straight back and down rather than forming a "horn" shape up into the sinus?

[Helm]

helm - i know what you mean, but this sketch (and most of the others I do) are the size of my palm, which makes descriptive marks hard.  every time i try to draw a nose at this size i just make it like that and say "vuck" - like I said if these were for study purposes they would be of a very different scale and then would be actual attention payed to these things.  the sketch before (the photoshop doodle) has no nose to speak of, so it's hard to say whether it follows in the same fashion.

perhaps i should post more real studies?  I guess at the end of the day though i just don't come here for that sort of thing, I come here for play.  Partisan is for play, pixel art is for play, even edits and suggestions are more of a relaxation method than a task.  make of that what you will.

whole point of fixing an issue in your method is that it'll not show up ever again when you draw be it for fun or study or work.

[Faktablad]

Faktablad, at 1:30, those high pitches, is that what harmonics on bass sound like?  Or are you just plucking the string above the neck?  Didn't know bass could do harmonics, would have expected them to be muddy and dull.  Also where did you get those crashes?  I wanna start recording music again.  But I hate fiddling with stuff to get a good sound.  Whenever I record it sounds like balls.

The high-pitched washy, scrapy sounds are from scraping a pick along the strings.  The track also has a lot of reverb.  Otherwise, I didn't play any harmonics, just the normal notes on the fretboard.

[ndchristie]

unnecessary post.  details relevant to other's posts preserved in their quotes.

in other news, junkboy - i'm enjoying the palette decisions, which could easily have been ugly yet managed to be genuine (and therefor attractive).

[Faceless]

What he's saying is that if you learnt the lesson properly the problem would not bleed into your sketches, and not that you should treat these sketches as studies.

[ndchristie]

unnecessary post.  details relevant to other's posts preserved in their quotes.

[Helm]

That's debatable on a pedagogical level because we haven't demonstrated that studies and sketches use the same knowledge or even have the same processes.  I've already said they don't - what similarities these have to real artwork or anything derived from observation is purely habitual and neither intended nor unintended.

I'm alright with you doing whatever you want, I just want to help. So if you'll allow me a final word on the matter it is this: you like to talk about this much more than you probably should. Regardless of whether you'd take my advice or not, you shouldn't feel compelled to create rationalizations to preset to us about it. Internalise that whole process, it is not useful to anyone else reading. Studies and sketches use the same knowledge and have the same processes because you are the same thing and whenever you draw you draw from the same impulses. What changes is the amount of backtracking and correction you're willing to put into a piece of art, and whereas you felt like doing it on this piece or not is irrelevant. I only wanted to let you know your impulsive way of drawing noses (and faces, to a degree) is still broken. You can do whatever you want with that crit and you don't have to rationalize why you made a mistake now.

but you're also missing an important point - it's not a problem that I've been experiencing in my real work.  if it shows up there, obviously I'll work to correct it.  And I won't take that work to the internet of all places (and almost never have), I'll take it to people that can see it and touch it.

Having posted exclusively on this forum a lot of art that I hold quite dear for comments and scrutiny, I resent the tone of that comment. This isn't the internet, this is Pixelation. It should not be lumped in with Deviantarts and the like. At least what I gather from your tone is that I should not give you any more critique about the things you post in this thread.

If anyone were to demand that this be a place of critique only, I would not only be sad, but I would not put up my doodles, either.  Is that how it should be?

No this thread is 'post what you want'. Your attitude just tells other people if they should give you critique or not.

In the end, as harsh as this may sound, it's impossible for me to consider this forum (or any internet forum, but particularly one centered on outdated digital techniques a place for "real art," and I haven't ever wanted it to be.

Take that flawed attitude back to uni where it'll be appreciated much more. Here is for people that want to learn and want to help others learn in a grassroots way, bad crits and all. It's not an ivory tower full of highly classically-trained people that are only apparently worthy of your 'real' artwork. I personally owe 70% of my artistic growth, though it might not be dazzling to you or anyone else, to this place and am offended by that comment. If nothing else here taught me to behave decently when I get critiqued, taught me to say 'thanks' even if I was aware of the error that got critiqued, taught me to respect the time other people put into helping me with my artwork. You're not there yet apparently, so go back to art school where you're paying for people to take your art seriously. Apparently good will on the internet is just cheap, you see it every day.

Am I being a jerk here?  Yes.  Am I being honest?  Completely.  What does that mean?  Hell if I know.

It means you should think more before you post.

[Atnas]

(this photo is actually taken at what I think is a higher angle)

Helm was refering i believe to my desire to show both nostrils, and the fact that the bridge appears collapsed with the nostril flaps heading straight back and down rather than forming a "horn" shape up into the sinus?

Ah. I suppose what I was actually seeing but didn't realize was the lack of shape to the nostrils. But it's very small so there's an excuse I suppose. That, however, leads to this...

there's always the 1 px photoshop brush.

but this is a drawing?  I try to only use photoshop to clean up things like page edges, not correct mistakes.

I'm willing to use any tool at my disposal to make my art look better. Graphics software is the same to me as a pencil in that it too is a tool. It comes down to views on "art purity"? Usually I'll touch up my drawings on the PC after I scan them because I'll have made a mistake or I realize a flaw that I hadn't caught before. There's no harm in emulating an actual pencil with a tablet stylus towards the goal of self improvement if the audience is of an electronic nature.

I accept it's for entertainment but this matters just as much as a study in relation to your artistic progression. You may not care, but the people here seem to love to critique and therefore be prepared to have sketches performed during leisure held on the same level as those done for a client. From what I gather, all we care about is the advancement of your artistry, and I don't think anyone here wants rationalizations when none are needed.

In the end if this doesn't matter, then neither does you or I's life by the same reasoning because I feel one's art is a reflection of many aspects of one's own life, ranging from care to even obstinacy - which can be examined in art which one refuses to make beneficial changes to and instead rationalizes. Go figure that we try to make it matter, on paper and in our lives. It's what gives this stuff meaning.

Don't think I'm saying to make everything matter. If everything mattered then this meaningless argument would matter, which it doesn't because at the end of the day, "to each his own". 

Note that by we I do not speak for anyone but myself and my observations on the nature of this place.

[ndchristie]

unnecessary post.

art school [is a place] where you're paying for people to take your art seriously.

only relevant note for anyone considering formal education - art school, at least for an undergrad, isn't a place where you pay people to take your art seriously in the sense that implies, it's a place where they put you down and degrade you and confine your artistic expression to mundane tasks until you either get over yourself or (more unfortunate but hopefully less common) you learn not to care what people think because "they're all assholes anyway."  It's a rare teacher that even considers that he's being payed by the students or that feels any financial motivation with regards to giving students anything. "Respect" is not purchased nor is it often given (and never where it is not hard earned) - this is why hardly anybody is "taken seriously" as an artist until they're at least middle-aged.  The only respect given is in the sense that the faculty considers you capable as a student of withstanding punishment, and nobody has to pay money to receive that.



random pose from class.

[Helm]

Yeah from what I said to you, that is the one point you felt compelled to let standing after messing around with your posts. Anyway, I won't nag you about this anymore. My only comment for your study is that you should post such things uncropped.

[ndchristie]

Yeah from what I said to you, that is the one point you felt compelled to let standing after messing around with your posts. Anyway, I won't nag you about this anymore. My only comment for your study is that you should post such things uncropped.

Yes - it was the only point not made entirely out of self-concern - i wouldn't want the many young artists in this community who are considering their future to see an incomplete picture of the institution, nor would I want all traditionally educated artists condemned for a single freshman.

[Froli]

Man, I wish i got your drawing skills and this one caught my eye. It really looks good except for the face and I tried remaking Atnas shrunken head edit.



Is this okay enough to make her girlish?  the jaw has problems? is the neck angled okay?

Anyway, I feel you really got a bit pissed with helm's critic but heck... with your current level, the push that helm advice to you is really good, even if it's a message across the globe. Probably in a short time you will be joining the god level tier ... For me, I always see the old timers here as my teachers and I really believe they are helping me attain the skills that I needed. That is, to get at least above mediocre level 


EDIT! I THOUGHT IT'S A FEMALE CHARACTER!  I should read the posts carefully. At least he can pass now as a young man/ boy.

[AdamAtomic]

Flash shmup I started got a nice feature on Indie Games Blog today!

[Ben2theEdge]

Adam, you win the internet.
Does this project use the famous perfect 16-color palette? It kinda looked like it.
Either way good job, I can't wait to see what else you add to it.

[huZba]

Pretty neat Adam. Okay to commence nitpicking?

[AdamAtomic]

Sure!  It's not even close to done like it says on Indie Games Blog, but if you've got ideas or stuff that looks weird in this version lemme have it

[huZba]

The controls have some oddities. There seems to be a slight acceleration/deceleration going on which screws things up. I'd say it's generally a good idea to leave that kind of things out unless the gameplay is based on momentum like sonic or mario. It's pretty hard to get to work properly. Now it only adds confusion. In addition it feels like it gets worse with diagonal movement. Small nudges to dodge things are hard cause the ship might move just a few pixels or then it might jump a longer distance. Slowing down the ship might help a bit, but it wouldn't remove the fundamental weirdness. In life force on NES  it's easy to navigate through small openings even if the speed is maxed. There are no "extras" in the movement. Pressing a button makes the ship move on a set speed, that's it. Moving in a circle, going back and forth left/right up/down really fast should make the problem apparent in your game.

I'd say the controls are tight when you can clear out a scattered wave with a single bullet for each enemy with no misses 

One thing that helps making the controls more responsive is giving priority for the latest pressed key. Since it's played on a keyboard there will randomly be a situation where two opposing directional keys are pressed down at the same time. Now the left key always takes priority which might give a small latency when switching from moving left to moving right.

The art looks nice, but one thing that bothers me is how the front of the ship flickers like mad when moving horizontally. There's a space where adjacent pixels alternate from dark to light. Making the other spikey thing darker probably fixes it.
You could also experiment with different types of explosions and sound effects to work on the really top-of-the-pyramid game-feel territory. The way some specific explosions were made in silkworm are pretty neat and i haven't seen it in other games. When you shoot the mines or bombs or whatever they were, the explosion is really fast and moves away from the direction it was shot from. It really feels like blasting something away. Generally a lot of shmup enemies' movements and explosions don't seem to be affected by the momentum of your bullets. Maybe giving it a feeling of blasting away stuff could add some immersion? As for the sound department, smashing the random button in SFXR should give you enough resources that you can mix together to create an explosion sound that really feels like something specific, even if you can't tell what it exactly is. Try to give it sound that makes killing the enemies feel really good.

The best feeling related effect at the moment is when the bomb is used and a lot of explosion sounds go off at the same time and the screen flashes. Has lots of "OOMPH"

One thing i liked a lot was how the pickups moved up instead of down. Gives you a reason not to shoot all the time. This kind of small things that add gameplay without adding control complexity are more than welcome in any game. Now NOT-SHOOTING is a viable gameplay strategy. Waiting and shooting enemies when they're closer to the bottom of the screen gives time to collect the flickeryballs. Maybe you could expand on this idea with boss battles and such?

I'm looking forward to play more of this game. It's really great for something that was created in such a short time 

[Malor]

I havn't posted anything.. at all in quite a while.. so I guess I'll just post one of my recent and favorite sketches..



regular old #2 pencil used..

[Sherman Gill]

Not sure how realistic you're trying to make it, but the torso and legs are too short, Malor.

[Malor]

ah yes, I thought that would be brought up.. I didn't really intend for it to be very realistic in the first place, but it was a mistake which I noticed, I just didn't feel that it need to be fixed in this case. I may fix it eventually..If it bothers people, that is.

[Ben2theEdge]

Been doing a bit of concept art at work lately and that's put me in the mood to do more painting at home.

[Conceit]

There's something beautiful about the hand-drawn outlines (dare I say inking?) overlapped to the pixeled coloring there.

*sniff* anybody picking up a stench of stagnant ego from this page?   

[AdamAtomic]

huzba thanks for all the feedback!  duly noted, all of it.  As far as the movement goes, it's actually kinda tricky, since its all integer math and no trig, but suffice to say SOME acceleration is necessary, but I will continue to experiment with the timing and stuff, especially regarding short keypresses.  Glad to hear you like the bombs and pickups, I've been getting a fairly positive response to those from most of the players so far!  I'm not entirely sure what you mean by the flickering, but I'll check it out - if its something as simple as an art change that should be easy.  Also I agree 100% that putting momentum into the explosions is pretty awesome!  I'll definitely experiment with that as well...maybe once I have missiles in they will have a concussive blowback like that?  Anyways thanks again, it will be a while before I can update but hopefully I can address all of these concerns

[Atnas]

Ben that looks wonderful, I love digital painting.