Author Topic: Street Figther HD Remix  (Read 24921 times)

Offline Scuba Steve

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #100 on: October 02, 2007, 10:50:27 pm »
The biggest problem with this endeavor is that it cheapens what I said Capcom and SNK should have done about 5 years ago... redraw all their characters in a higher resolution for the new "millennium".  This was a good attempt... but they are just shoehorning their work into a game that wasn't made for it... their time would have been better spent creating a new fighting game with high resolution characters rather than monkey them into a preexisting title.  I always adored the Capcom artwork for SNK v Capcom and though that would make a nice a great fighting game.
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Offline Lee N

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #101 on: November 04, 2007, 06:43:38 am »
Someone has leaked unfinished .PSDs for this game.. it's posted here if anyone is interested. It still looks bad.



"I'll just paste the heads here and start from there.."

Boo.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2007, 06:46:52 am by Lee N »

Offline AdamTierney

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #102 on: November 04, 2007, 10:24:37 am »
How embarrassing. In terms of the leak, and the art.  :P

Offline .TakaM

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #103 on: November 04, 2007, 11:18:57 am »
god.. dhalsim is so bizarre


edit-

ok, I'm a complete noob at anatomy... but at least I don't make the mistake of two left feet
« Last Edit: November 04, 2007, 11:31:45 am by .TakaM »
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Offline Helm

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #104 on: November 04, 2007, 02:42:20 pm »
*sigh*

Offline Feron

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #105 on: November 04, 2007, 05:17:24 pm »
*sigh*


i completely concur.

just look at blanka's right forearm... wtf

Offline Jad

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #106 on: November 04, 2007, 08:23:45 pm »


HOW DO I ANIMAETED!
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Offline nickthem

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #107 on: November 04, 2007, 08:33:49 pm »
His hands are in a uh, handjob position, lulz, god these look terrible.

Offline Scuba Steve

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #108 on: November 05, 2007, 01:11:04 am »
I say the sprites are fair game... but the animations are much more difficult to critique.  Remember, they are shoehorning these sprites into the original animations, not creating new ones.  Someone higher up than the animators made the call to keep SF2 game play identical to the arcade... but just add High resolution images to the arcade.  All images are required to be the same size, relative shape and with identical animation frames to the original Arcade SF2.  I'm not saying whether I agree with this or not... but do take the restrictions the artists were under into consideration, it's only fair for a critique of the work.
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Offline ptoing

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #109 on: November 05, 2007, 01:26:45 am »
Well what you say is true Steve, but it is very apperant that the people who made these sprite revisions have no clue of animation. The seperate frames seem to be drawn without comparing one to another while making them, which is what you need to do in animation to not get inconsistant bits, which here are plenty.

Several bits, esp his right arm and the neck are all over the place, with changing anatomy and shading. This, as far as I am concerned can be called halfassed at best and is a poor testament to Capcom.
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Offline Noveroth

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #110 on: November 05, 2007, 04:54:33 am »
I bet you could turn that Dhalsim image into a pretty badass samus

Offline sharprm

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #111 on: November 05, 2007, 05:08:41 am »
The fact that they are leaks means they still may plan to clean up the frames and make them conistent (for shading and lines). But when it was said it was leaked, does that mean someone was careless with their usb or something, or do people working there really feel strongly about how the art looks (in a negative way) that they risk their jobs to leak it?

I don't know enough about anatomy but i think the head for red bandana guy is too small. Maybe when u playing the game u wont care so much about how it looks.
Modern artists are told that they must create something totally original-or risk being called "derivative".They've been indoctrinated with the concept that bad=good.The effect is always the same: Meaningless primitivism
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Offline Scuba Steve

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #112 on: November 05, 2007, 05:56:47 am »
I agree about sloppy elements of the animation, ptoing... I see a lot of copy and paste, the shading is all over the place in the arm... I was just reminding people, who may not be familiar, what the constraints were.  I think that adds a layer of constraint that must be considered.  There is some video footage of the game floating around the net... It's really fuzzy and grainy... but the animation looks decent sped up and quick.  Again, I'm not defending Capcom here, but there's more to this than just a crappy animation.
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Offline Jad

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #113 on: November 05, 2007, 04:47:40 pm »
I agree about sloppy elements of the animation, ptoing... I see a lot of copy and paste, the shading is all over the place in the arm... I was just reminding people, who may not be familiar, what the constraints were.  I think that adds a layer of constraint that must be considered.  There is some video footage of the game floating around the net... It's really fuzzy and grainy... but the animation looks decent sped up and quick.  Again, I'm not defending Capcom here, but there's more to this than just a crappy animation.

Actually, you could work under the same restrictions and come up with way better methods than this. Like for example work with shading in a larger scale, making sure that even the most basic shading works in all frames of an animations.

I mean, what does it matter that still frames look good when EVERYTHING IN THE GAME WILL MOVE AT ALL TIMES except for when it's paused? It's just stupid.

No hating, though. I have no idea of how the artists were briefed before taking this assignment, but, well, the results could've been better. Seriously. Maybe they should've hired people with experience in ANIMATION? Gah. D:>
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Offline big brother

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #114 on: November 05, 2007, 05:49:33 pm »
Just because the animations have to stay within the collision boxes doesn't mean they must share the exact articulation of the pixel version. For example, there is no excuse why the hanging flaps of the belt can't move smoothly and less drastically.

The coloring is awful -- flattens the entire sprite and turns the foreshortening into a joke.

The butt crack that appears and disappears on his neck/trap/completely invented muscle made me laugh.

Offline baccaman21

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #115 on: November 05, 2007, 05:58:00 pm »
those are misinterpretations of veins..

this whole thing smells of outsourcing the artwork to indian gfx outsources...

the lack of consistency, the misinterpretation not to mention the complete lack of understanding of the characters...

it begs belief...

makes me sad... very sad. :'(
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Offline Lee N

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #116 on: November 05, 2007, 08:38:09 pm »
this whole thing smells of outsourcing the artwork to indian gfx outsources...
It's outsourced all right, outsourced to UDON - an american comic book stuido. I think it would've been for the better if they found some animators in india to outsource it to. Right now it's like a bad joke.

Offline Blick

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #117 on: November 08, 2007, 07:49:36 am »
This has got to be an elaborate April Fool's joke. There's no way it could be this ridiculous. I mean, this whole time I thought "Maybe the artists are just horrible." Blanka with two left feet ended that thought process though. Either the artists are fucking blind or this is a wonderfully prepared and executed joke.

Offline .TakaM

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #118 on: November 08, 2007, 08:16:54 am »
the 2 left feet will be because of the fact they flip and rotate a lot of limbs, I'd assume they just didn't have blanka's right foot at that angle yet, so they're just holding it's place with the left foot... or they were dumb and didn't notice it was a left foot :crazy:
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Offline Helm

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #119 on: November 08, 2007, 06:20:53 pm »
The worst thing about this isn't the two left feet.


Offline Scuba Steve

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #120 on: November 08, 2007, 08:32:20 pm »
Isn't that particular issue directly related to retracing old artwork; required to have the new art fit the old bounding boxes?
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Offline Helm

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #121 on: November 08, 2007, 08:37:06 pm »
I don't know. Show me the bounding boxes for that frame and I'll show you a way to make them work without awful anatomy.

Offline Cammy

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #122 on: November 09, 2007, 12:04:11 am »
this whole thing smells of outsourcing the artwork to indian gfx outsources...
It's outsourced all right, outsourced to UDON - an american comic book stuido. I think it would've been for the better if they found some animators in india to outsource it to. Right now it's like a bad joke.

Long Vo from Udon is the artist working on the sprite charts that are sent to a studio in Hong Kong who are working on the colouring and everything else. Since the hard-core Street Fighter fans want the game to play exactly like the original (they don't even want remixed music or newly recorded speech samples) the positions of all the limbs on the characters has to stay exactly as it was in the original and no animation frames can be added. It was Capcom's decision to keep it this way and have the whole project confined to a low budget because they needed a next-gen Street Fighter game that could be developed in a short time period to get out there to fill the void between now and when Street Fighter 4 comes out.

Oh, and I thought I'd point out that Udon is a Canadian comic company, not American, not that it's very relevant but some people might take it as an insult.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2007, 12:08:12 am by Cammy »

Offline ptoing

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #123 on: November 09, 2007, 12:54:34 am »
Since the hard-core Street Fighter fans want the game to play exactly like the original (they don't even want remixed music or newly recorded speech samples)

Then they should just play the original.
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Offline .TakaM

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #124 on: November 09, 2007, 01:40:59 am »
I don't know. Show me the bounding boxes for that frame and I'll show you a way to make them work without awful anatomy.
There was no bounding box in the psd, but it did have the original sprite frame:

just as bad really.. Still, I'd like to see your version helm :)
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Offline Scuba Steve

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #125 on: November 09, 2007, 02:30:43 am »
Now... this is NOT the official size of the bounding boxes... but based off the other works... the blocks I used are the same size... so it would probably be SIMILAR.



Also, it seems as though the people in charge are also aware of many of the concerns that have been raised.  Their Blog talks about inconsistent shading and the problems with Blanka.
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Offline Helm

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #126 on: November 09, 2007, 02:43:11 am »
So you're telling me that since the bounding box is what it is, we can't take that long arm from there and extend the left leg so it covers up the exact same space? We can of course, but whomever is making this doesn't know the first thing about anatomy and is not interested in making good art, he's interested in doing the little he thinks he knows , just as Capcom hired him to do.

Offline shaheen

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #127 on: November 09, 2007, 02:44:20 am »
Quote from: Capcom Blog
[The CPS2] made advancements in arcade technology and essentially, was capable of handling better, more detailed graphics. So any character or move that was new to the game between SFII and SSFII was developed on the CPSII board. So Cammy, Fei, Long, and T Hawk were able to have some cool effects added to them, like the blurring, which was not possible for the other characters developed on the CPS1.

This quote is talking about this frame here: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2014/1879371617_7619ff6eeb_o.jpg
Uh, what? Are they actually saying that clearly manual motion blur common in animation for decades was due to an enhancement in arcade hardware?

Also: the Blanka sprite is part of a sequence in which he rests his weight on that elongated arm. Even if you were to make the HD version look nice anatomically, it'd be difficult to try and fix the entire animation, I think. The original Blanka sprites were very wonky to begin with.

EDIT: Here's the sequence I was talking about: http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/4410/blankaza0.gif
« Last Edit: November 09, 2007, 02:47:37 am by Khris »

Offline Cammy

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #128 on: November 09, 2007, 04:53:08 am »
Since the hard-core Street Fighter fans want the game to play exactly like the original (they don't even want remixed music or newly recorded speech samples)

Then they should just play the original.

I don't understand why people would complain about remixed music and new sound effects if the whole look of the game has been changed, but the really hard-core SF guys love to bitch about everything. I loved SSFII/ST, but since this is a new revision, I have no problem with it playing differently or sounding better if the game is more fun to play. I just can't wait to see Cammy in action.

Offline Conceit

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #129 on: November 09, 2007, 05:42:52 am »
and now for something only I could care about

I love JohnK's blog...this all makes so much sense now that I've seen him complain about Korean inbetweening studios :p. the whole system is made to replicate bland and boring.

the people up above think more shades and more rez =more quality, but no one in the project has any clue of animation "cause it's already animated anyways" so we're seeing subpar illustrators making millions of illustrations one after another without any relation within themselves...and then they're stickin it into a game....eek

Yet another post about everything you already knew with some added nonesense.

courtesy of ~Conceit~

Offline Ben2theEdge

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #130 on: November 09, 2007, 02:32:45 pm »
First off I should make it clear that I really, REALLY hate the way this project is turning out. The thing that aggravates me most is the way these Udon artists are misrepresenting a great game, and oldschool 2D graphics in general.

Having said that, I also think it's totally unfair to be ripping apart leaked WIP art that the artists obviously aren't ready to show anyone, without them even present. The quality of the art is beside the point, it's an honor thing.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2007, 02:35:02 pm by Ben2theEdge »
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Offline big brother

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #131 on: November 09, 2007, 06:13:41 pm »
Out of a morbid sense of curiosity, I downloaded the leaked art and opened the PSD files. There are the original pixel frames resized on a layer behind Udon's work. They have already taken liberties, not exactly matching the shapes and positions of the limbs, so that argument is bullshit.

One of the major problems I'm seeing is the difference in design philosophy between low and high resolution work. I can forgive many of the quirks in the original sprites. The priority was making the sprites read, giving them bigger heads and hands to accommodate the detail that conveys the personality of the characters. In high-res, these sacrifices don't need to be made, which is why the Udon sprites look like grotesque mutants. No offense, Blanka.

Offline Froli

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #132 on: November 11, 2007, 06:56:19 am »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_CoKEvn45Q

I believe this is the first  video released so far. Really...Using a cell phone camera vid <from what I heard> to advertise their HD game and make it blurry. I feel there some shady reason behind it, like.. hide the details? :huh:

Offline .TakaM

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #133 on: November 11, 2007, 07:59:59 am »
probably the best quality vid so far:
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/121409.html
grabbed from an HD interview, so don't worry about it jumping :P
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Offline eck

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #134 on: November 11, 2007, 02:05:21 pm »
the 'recieve damage' animation and the 'K.O' animation really stuck out to me as in need of major improvement.
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Offline Lee N

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #135 on: November 13, 2007, 04:29:20 am »
There's no end to the failure around this project, is there? Apparently they're going to rebalance the entire game now, changing timings and button combinations to be more forgiving. They will still let you play the game the old way, but with the old graphics.

So, tell me. If you're not going to stick to the old gameplay with the new graphics.. why the eff are you trying to stick to the old restrictions? This is beyond retarded. They should just've made a completely new engine from scratch, with real artists and animators.

God this pisses me off.

Source:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8577209&postcount=1

Offline shaheen

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #136 on: November 13, 2007, 04:39:22 am »
Er, uh... first line of that forum post:
Quote
Before you bitch, THE ORIGINAL GAMEPLAY WILL STILL BE INCLUDED AND UNTOUCHED, BUT WITH THE NEW GRAPHICS, it is just an option.

I heard about the changes, and they sound great. What they've changed doesn't really warrant a completely new game. The meat of the game is still based on the old code, while the only addition is in the form of a few changes in the movelists and move properties. It's another Street Fighter 2 revision.

Art still blows, but at least the game itself will continue to rock.

Offline nickthem

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #137 on: November 18, 2007, 06:08:17 pm »
HAY GUISE I CANT DO DOWN + DOWN-FORWARD + FORWARD + PUNCH, A SIMPLE COMBINATION OF BUTTONS THATS VERY EASY TO PULL OFF ESPECIALLY ON A CONTROLLER. MAKE IT SO I CAN PRESS DOWN ON THE D-PAD INSTEAD SINCE I AM A FAILURE AT GAMES.

Games are getting too easy, its making gamers weak.

Offline Helm

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #138 on: November 18, 2007, 11:57:57 pm »
weak for what? The upcoming nerd war?

Offline shaheen

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #139 on: November 18, 2007, 11:59:57 pm »
Quote
Games are getting too easy, its making gamers weak.

Not really. Regardless of the fact that they're focusing on more difficult motions to pull off (like the 360 for Zangief's Spinning Pile Driver, or the Tiger Knee motion for Sagat (d,df,f,uf)) in regards to simplicity, the inability to pull off those maneuvers doesn't determine who's 'weak' in Street Fighter. They're simply leveling out the playing field for those characters who may have intimidated less reflex-enabled players. It's a great idea to appeal to the greater audience who don't choose to practice the motions constantly.

There are, however, quite a few games currently out there for those who wish play a fighting game that has a heavy emphasis on reflexes. Guilty Gear and Melty Blood are good examples of this.

Offline Lee N

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #140 on: November 22, 2007, 01:42:03 am »


More at LOLFIGHTERZ

 ;D

Offline happymonster

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #141 on: December 06, 2007, 06:32:24 pm »
For comparison, here is a screenshot from SF4, (3D, but with a nice art style)


Offline Conceit

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #142 on: March 14, 2008, 08:50:51 pm »
http://blog.capcom.com/archives/998

They realized the art style was too heavy a cap to have. I say that's good because the artists werent taking advantage of the extra shades anyway and now it actually looks more cohesive. I wouldnt have used a whole shade for outlines though, I'd be a little more creative and play with the balance of amount of shadows and highlilghts for each character, according to the pallete of their skin.

Offline Helm

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #143 on: March 15, 2008, 09:20:18 am »
Seeing it in motion... I hate to be proven right about the cardboard cutout thing. Bigger resolution, needs more inbetweens. What can be said?

The new art looks better (at least the flesh tones do, and no double-jointed thumbs, alright) but I still fail to see how this is an upgrade from pixels in terms of movement and gameplay. If anything, they should have remade the pixel art at say, double the res, and with more in-betweens. That would have been a doable project at half the time, and it would have looked proper.

Offline happymonster

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #144 on: March 15, 2008, 12:53:50 pm »
The anatomy does look better. Was there anything really they could do without creating a whole new set of high-resolution in-between frames?

Offline Helm

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #145 on: March 15, 2008, 02:05:52 pm »
There's LOTS that could be done by real animators. You'd be surprised to see how well a good snappy 6 frame punch can work with good anticipation and flow. The original sprites weren't any wonder of animation to begin with, but they work as low res sprites. Bigger res calls for animation artistry to make them work, but oh well.

Offline happymonster

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #146 on: March 16, 2008, 10:06:37 am »
So, why have they not gone down that route? Money?  ???

Offline Conceit

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #147 on: March 16, 2008, 12:53:26 pm »
The original guy who came up with the project loves the game, so I dont think it was his choice to just go for the cheapest option. I think it was just ignorance about just what is required to make good HD sprites. They thought they could use UDON comic artists for it which was already a bad decision since they're not animators and they dont know how to do this.They went with UDON because they liked the way their comics looked, but then it turned out that they could actually use UDON so they used the company UDON usually ourseources to, which were just crappy artists....who started shoehorning old stuff into the sprites.

Now they're having to re-do the sprites with less shades because it's just turning out too much for the outsourced company to do sprites with so many shades, I bet it's because they're running out of budget, and who wants to spend on a remix of SF2, when SF4 already looks soooo much like SF2 in 3D?

Offline BimTuckley

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #148 on: June 26, 2008, 10:16:49 am »
Just bumping this because the Beta is out.
The trainwreck that never ends - even the gameplay is broken.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCseWmfIjzU

And as a bonus the new character select pics.

Cammy as well as Chun Li look like insects and every male has the same nose.

Also 4chan reacted to the beta with their own interpretation of HD streetfighter





 




Offline .TakaM

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Re: Street Figther HD Remix
« Reply #149 on: June 26, 2008, 11:03:42 am »
lol, oh god.. so much for 're-balancing' the gameplay  :P
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