[WIP] Starting From Step One

[Hawk]

Original


You may all be wondering what the heck the above is, and I'll tell you. The above is a G.U.D.N. tower from a gaming project that I'm leading called, "Lunix Palvitier™", a high-tech/space themed game series consisting of 4 planned game sequels:

Lunix Plavitier (2D)
Lunix Palvitier (3D)
Lunix Palvitier (3D)
Lunix Palvitier: Nebula Tactics (3D)

The above is from the sub-game in works the 3D version and is generally a outlined mock-up of that building model. Anyway I would like to say that I'll be posting updates on this more than likely hourly except for sleeping, and you all can expect probably something very similiar in quality to that of my current avatar. Right now the style you see portrayed as my avatar, futuristic fantasy (heavy realism impressionism), is the pixel style I've decided to adopt and will generally be the foundation style of all my works whether buildings or otherwise. Feel free to critique, edit critiques, and comment once I get some work done on these lines, but try to refrain from doing so before hand. (Keep in mind this will require a high color count to acheive the idolized style.)

Current State Of Peice



Update Log
Original Version ~ Simiple crude section outlines, and yes that in the green is going to end up a bush. Little light beacon detail at tip of wireless beacon (top of creation). 6 Colors
Update 1 ~ Started to work on the beacon & beacon station itself, this small outline is rather hard to work with yet it allows me to make a good use of my colors. 18 Colors
Update 2 ~ Major edit, took about 15 minutes from start & loading, etc. It's the basic panels for the peice.
Update 3 ~ In the process of adding the side panel.
Update 4 ~ Quick coloring on remaining areas. Going to add speck detail, and kill off some colors.
Update 5 ~ Decided to change around the shape, and style so that it would be a bit more tangible.
Update 6 ~ Fixed the faint issue, some outline issues, blending, and just some general lighting.
Update 7 ~ Here is an update. I did a few changes, and basically just added that line to make it have depth. Changed the color scheme (trying to go back to original). I did some spot checker texurizing. Now some insight on this update, the side panel that you see on the side I turned into a circuit board, or just simply a display screen, and I tried to heavily influence the cool-blue electric tone.
Update 8 ~ The update has alot of dithering and I removed/redid some of the lines, and added some contrast. It looks better and cleaner than before in my perspective.
Update 9 ~ Cut down the color count heavily, and did more reformation on the lines.

[Frychiko]

How long did it take you to do this WIP? I could do it in under a minute. I have nothing to critique at the moment, too early.

[Panda]

Also, the irony of telling someone to post a piece that shows effort while you post this.
Maybe it is time you watch what you say when posting around.

[ptoing]

heavy realism impressionism

I think activation of brain is in order.

[Helm]

Good luck with the piece. At the time it's too early to critique.

[Grindie]

You may all be wondering what the heck the above is, and I'll tell you. The above is a G.U.D.N. tower from a gaming project that I'm leading called, "Lunix Palvitier™", a high-tech/space themed game series consisting of 4 planned game sequels:

Lunix Plavitier (2D)
Lunix Palvitier (3D)
Lunix Palvitier (3D)
Lunix Palvitier: Nebula Tactics (3D)

Did you really trademark that name or did you just stick the trademark on to make it more "professional"? Also, I'll give you a month's wages if you actually complete these 4 planned sequels.

[AdamAtomic]

That's a huge bush

[Hawk]

That's a huge bush

It won't seem that large, I'm going to hint towards a tree though. Mind that this tree is ontop of the cell tower, it's because of an Co2 recycling act innated because the percentage of vegation vs metropolitian areas.

@Helm, thank you and sorry I couldn't post more of it sooner, got tied up with directing a co-worker on the 2D project.

@Ptoing, actually that is the problem with this theme it's because there are limited to no references.

@Panda, hint at the phrase I posted:

Feel free to critique, edit critiques, and comment once I get some work done on these lines, but try to refrain from doing so before hand. (Keep in mind this will require a high color count to acheive the idolized style.)

@Frychiko, about a few minutes. Trying to make a tiny sized model, and then I'm going to make a large model, have to make sure it looks realistic and not just flat.

[Panda]

Yeah, I'm aware you are still working on it. But what made you think his animated lines weren't a WIP either? Did you think about that when posting on the other thread?
Acting like an ass won't lead you far.

Also, this whole thing looks like it uses 6 colors (at most) yet you are using 18.
A good use of your colors you say? Honestly I don't think so, you are not making the most of them.

[Hawk]

There was a difference, when you ask for critique on the apparent, you're going to get it. When you say wait awhile until there is something to critique, then that is when your going to get it. In addition I'm counting all of the colors, black, white, gray, dark grey, green, and all the colors I will come across. So yes the color count will be high, but the truth is, do you care about a number or do you care about the product?

[fil_razorback]

So why did you post it if it's too early to critique ?

[robalan]

In addition I'm counting all of the colors, black, white, gray, dark grey, green, and all the colors I will come across. So yes the color count will be high, but the truth is, do you care about a number or do you care about the product?

I don't care how many colors you use, so long as the colors are all useful.  The complaint people are bringing against you at the moment is that you have three times as many colors as are apparent, you've posted rough lineart that deserves no comment or critique, and you are acting a bit like a pompous ass in your posting.  I'd suggest waiting until you have something worth critiquing to post before you post it so you don't get reactions like you're getting.  You can post all the stages of progress if you want, but rough lines like this are kind of useless to post.  Just my two cents; good luck with the project.

[Doppleganger]

Kind of off topic but you say we can expect something of similar quality to your avatar but, what do you base that on other than it being something you're striving for? Your avatar has over 9100 colors in it. Judging from the responses you're getting, your color use is already a bit overboard. Point being, I don't personally see your tower turning into a realistic building based on your other works and it's current state and I don't understand why you'd opt to use pixel art when the graphical style you're going for uses 9100 colors.

[Panda]

There was a difference, when you ask for critique on the apparent, you're going to get it. When you say wait awhile until there is something to critique, then that is when your going to get it. In addition I'm counting all of the colors, black, white, gray, dark grey, green, and all the colors I will come across. So yes the color count will be high, but the truth is, do you care about a number or do you care about the product?

I'd rather fix something early than carrying an error until the end and having to rework stuff, so posting early WIPs is rather recommended.
But according to what you said, why are you posting something not yet crit worthy/something you don't want comments on yet? You might aswell keep to yourself until we can say something about it

As for Number vs Product, personally I don't care about either for this. But since you are posting on these forums for critique, I'll give the technique priority.
It just looks like you picked random colors out of a photo.
While right now we practically don't have any restriction, it kind of kills part of pixel art's nature (which in my opinion is to make the most out of the least, if you get what I mean)
But anyway good luck with further working.

[Hawk]

NP. Just wait about another 30-60 minutes. I'll be done.

~Alright, here is the base, I had to attend to something else, but I got to finish up the base within around 13 minutes.

[Feron]

What is it?

looks very blurry, lacks contrast, doesnt read very well ^^.

i'd lose the attitude aswell - telling others to put more effort in and you produce this shit.  Sorry man, but you top this years list of hypocrites.

[Sharm]

Just curious, but why are you doing this as a pixel art?  It looks like you took a small section of a photograph and jpged it.  Doesn't that defeat the purpose of doing it pixel by pixel in the first place?

[Hawk]

Feron, read the original post it may help in the whole schism of things.

Sharm, typically if you were to do that then yes it would.

[philipptr]

I'm not trying to be offensive but it doesnt seem to me like you really need the colors you're using at the moment. some have only very small difference in hue/saturation which isn't as visible to our eyes as difference in brightness. Also the pixels seem very randomly placed. In this state it looks totally like a color reduction piece. (I'm not saying that it is one, but you should really use the advantage to be able to place the pixels where you want them instead of having them in a random mess)

[JJ Naas]

I'd like to see how this works in relation to the rest of the graphics in the game.

[Hawk]

I'm not trying to be offensive but it doesnt seem to me like you really need the colors you're using at the moment. some have only very small difference in hue/saturation which isn't as visible to our eyes as difference in brightness. Also the pixels seem very randomly placed. In this state it looks totally like a color reduction piece. (I'm not saying that it is one, but you should really use the advantage to be able to place the pixels where you want them instead of having them in a random mess)

No problem at all. I'm just using a few various colors just for the sake of complimentary. Also when I make this image a big large they will end up standing out. Though yeah, because everyone got so upset about the massive amount of colors I decided to take the lower road and conserve a few hues here and there.

~JJ Ahh, this peice is just practice. It just helps build up some attributes or generally the feel for the style, and gives me ideas for architypes, etc.

[Vale]

I don't get what it is. Also, I don'tunderstand what is in your avater either. A tree and a building? This is really hard to read so far.

[Hawk]

I don't get what it is. Also, I don'tunderstand what is in your avater either. A tree and a building? This is really hard to read so far.

Read the first post for what this project is. My avatar is a building portion and a bush. 128 x 128 can only go so far.

[AdamAtomic]

This does not seem to be in the same style of your avatar at all.  Your avatar uses simple shapes and large blobs of color, as well as a varied color ramp including pink lighting and nice blue shadows.  your piece so far appears to be dark grey and light grey, with no definition aside from a little bit of scribbling, and nothing to indicate that it is a building?  Also it appears to be cut off rather abruptly on the right side of the image.  It lacks a clear light source, interesting colors, contrast and helpful scale information such as windows or lines for the floors of the building.

EDIT - also, I should point out that the majority of pieces posted here are less than 128x128 and have no problem conveying a satisfactory amount of information.  Your avatar could easily be adapted to a 64x64 px image or smaller without sacrificing any required detail, and it could be done with 16 colors as well.

[Hawk]

I didn't say that I would be using the exact same color rubric or building ideals, just the coloring style. Anyway the base coloring is now done, just have to smack to actually adding detail, etc.



Also feel free to critique now, and make edits, etc.

[philipptr]

imo
- add better (lightsource) (both sides of the building have the same brightness)
- clean the linework up. I don't know any architecture which has such broken lines in it
- use antialiasing and avoid just making a grey line between a very dark and a very bright area.

still not trying to be offensive, but maybe you should do something easier first and learn the basics of art and pixeling?

[Hawk]

...Go back to learning art? Hmm, years of 3D terrain modeling, general concept art, and around 2 years of leading gaming projects?  Hmm...wouldn't mind it if I actually could go back in time, then I may be able to see those whom have passed during that time period, but alas time ticks without discord. Though in response to learning pixel art, I don't care to learn what others have done and the guidelines they follow. Read one of my mottos in my signature, it may tell you something about me.

[Rynen10K]

I hate to sound like every other post on here, but I'm still not sure I understand the style...

Couldn't you essentially get the same effect from shrinking down a higher quality 2D or 3D render?
It almost seems like pixelling a shrunken photo by hand...

Not trying to stop you or anything - it's your style, after all.

[Grindie]

I've been to quite a few forums on this vast Internet and from the experience that I've gathered from my great travels, I've been able to deduce that THIS guy is a "joke account".

Right?

Am I right?

What do I win!?

[Sharm]

Learning what made other people's work great does not mean you have to make the same thing, or be the same type of artist.  It just means you learned something.  I like being different too, but I also think that you should know the rules before you break them, or you just end up being sloppy and using originality as an excuse.  I'm not saying that you're doing that here.  Just that you should really listen to the advice you're getting before you dismiss it.  Maybe even give it a try.  When it comes to art, learning another's style can only make your personal style better.

[Stwelin]

Feron, read the original post it may help in the whole schism of things.

A schism is a seperation, as in 'The Great Schism,' or seperation of the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches in 1054.
I think you were looking for the word 'gist,' as in 'the main point.'

Anyway, not to diverge too far off topic here...

The building, as stated before, uses too many colors. There is no reason to have colors in a pixel piece that vary in either hue, saturation, or value in such a little amount as the ones shown in the building you're working on here.

You can go ahead and try to justify it, but i believe i speak for the entire forum when i say it's just not pixel art in its current state.

[Helm]

years of 3D terrain modeling, general concept art, and around 2 years of leading gaming projects?

You seem to lack the artistic skill needed to lead game projects. Also your attitude is horrible. Please reconsider your usage of the forum. Your art suffers from very basic faults, but you don't seem to be in the right mindset to understand it. Your building is jagged and doesn't obey any appicable schema of perspective, the colors are random and messy, and generally you need to take critique if you hope to do better, and take it humbly without much talk about your 'experience'.

Please take what I said to heart. If this nonsense continues people will stop trying to help you altogether.

[setz]

Though in response to learning pixel art, I don't care to learn what others have done and the guidelines they follow.

So what you're saying is you don't care about pixel art?

To be honest I"m really having trouble trying to figure out what it is, it looks very flat and just like messy lines and shapes to me. Its very sloppy and needs a total re-work.

...Hmm, years of 3D terrain modeling, general concept art, and around 2 years of leading gaming projects...

If you want to learn and get better, the last way to do that is act like you know everything and are never wrong.

Man I feel like a parrot :/

[Hawk]

Since people seem to be having difficulty on understanding I decided to change it to a rust rubric.



It's rather faded, but I went more onto the shape than anything else.

~Helm, it doesn't require art to lead a game. Also I'm frankly new to pixel art, as I've told those that I've talked to I can't do line art, and hense this is why I'm currently having issues getting a setting I like. My attitude, is just another story, people are upset because I write critiques with a tinge of higher expectation.

~Everyone else, I'm just doing this for the fun, trying to get ideas, and generally practice my skills in pixel art so I can get a bit better understanding on the construction of things regarding this genre of artwork so that I can arrange other matters better. If you are angered by my critique then don't follow it, I'll post my mind with the greater intent to help. So continue if you must to insult me or my work or whatever else if you must, but it's not going to make me change to your preference. I'll continue the same type of critique if the deviant wishes their work to be critiqued, and I'll continue to work the way I've been working with the intent of getting better.

[Sharm]

Much more readable, though not as dynamic as the silver and black.  It still has a few spots where the lines look wobbly, mostly the left side ad the top.

[Helm]

You have perspective issues, contrast issues, hue issues and jaggiedness issues at this point. I suggest a proper perspective plane, more contrast, a bit of hue variation - though not much more saturation, and to clean up the lineart.

[AdamAtomic]

Experience != Talent
Experience != Skill
Experience != Ability

Believing that it does will prevent you from becoming a better artist.  There is no art in this thread worth defending, and certainly not worth defending with the language you are using.  It sounds like you may not speak English primarily, so I will chalk up some of this to simple language barriers, but there is a strong attitude of "I am already good enough" in spite of the majority of the responses seeming to indicate "no you are not, none of us are."

Your new update is definitely a step in the right direction, but Sharm and Helm's crits all stand as valid and accurate, you have a lot of work to do on this one still!

[ndchristie]

it just doesn't read, especially with the new palette.  the side of the building now comes forward and rests in a plane with the front, and thats just one problem.  the fact that it is more pixel-art now though is a good thing.

heavy realism impressionism

innated

schism of things

gives me ideas for architypes

time ticks without discord

rust rubric

man, what a Lexicorgy ...... we might have less "difficulty on understanding" if your posts made sense.  using words with confidence is one thing, using words incorrectly is quite another.

also, if you want help with a piece, act a little less like unto your username.  if you don't want help with a piece, and just want to show it for the sake of showing it, this is not the place for that.  the board is about critique, so anything posted is understood to be intended to recieve it.

as far as the look at my scribbles thing, it reminds me of that guy who called a press conference to announce that he might be making an announcement later this year..

[Hawk]

Fixed some things.

Adarias, I've spoke my mind. Whether or not people care to critique is and has always been their choice. Also for a definition in my ideals what that means:

Heavy realism impressionism = Even though it's a mistype, (heavy realism impression), it means that the peice will have a heavy sense of realism as a dominant category, and have the setting/etc. as sub-categories down the list of priority or down the line of ideal impressions.

Innated = It's generally the word, "innate", which means by nature, instict, default, etc.

Schism = Probably another mistype, though it was intending to reach the definition of the "whole picture of".

Time Ticks Without Discord = It means that time will always tick regardless of our regrets.

Rust Rubric = Rust relevant type rubric, orange/rust brown/etc.

[ptoing]

I suggest more following valid critiques and less pseudointellectual jibber-jabber. So far it seems that you have not taken anything into account what anyone said.
Actually trying to understand what the basics of pixelart are would help as well.

[Helm]

what you're trying to do is not impossible, I hope the edit helps.

[ndchristie]

what you ment could be infered based on context, but what you wrote is not what you ment, and assigning definitions to suit your needs doesnt actually qualify as proper use of language.  If you wish to actually communicate, use words that mean the same things that you intend them to.



discord - two or more parts that do not exist in harmony.  a single object, such as a ticking clock, cannot be discordant, so the statement means nothing.  your explanation, if that is truely what you mean to say, would imply that time and our regrets are naturally harmonized, which is a bit of a pessimistic view that still does not benefit your piece.

rust - iron oxide brown, FeO(OH), not the color of your piece.

rubric - iron oxide red, Fe₂O₃, more commonly known as red ochre or sinoper, also not the color of your piece.

there's no need to defend false definitions in your writing, just say "ooops" and try to avoid using words outside their definitions.

helm's edit has a lot you can take from it, particularly the establishment of planes and focus-depth.

[ptoing]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rubric not only red ochre but still a rather unsuitable term in this case.

Study Helm's edit.

[Hawk]

@Adrias, everything isn't a math problem.

rust      /rʌst/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ruhst] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. Also called iron rust. the red or orange coating that forms on the surface of iron when exposed to air and moisture, consisting chiefly of ferric hydroxide and ferric oxide formed by oxidation. 
2. any film or coating on metal caused by oxidation. 
3. a stain resembling this coating. 
4. any growth, habit, influence, or agency tending to injure, deteriorate, or impair the mind, character, abilities, usefulness, etc. 
5. Plant Pathology. a. any of several diseases of plants, characterized by reddish, brownish, or black pustules on the leaves, stems, etc., caused by fungi of the order Uredinales. 
b. Also called rust fungus. a fungus causing this disease. 
c. any of several other diseases of unknown cause, characterized by reddish-brown spots or discolorations on the affected parts. 
 
6. reddish yellow, reddish brown, or yellowish red. 
–verb
(used without object) 7. to become or grow rusty, as iron. 
8. to contract rust. 
9. to deteriorate or become impaired, as through inaction or disuse. 
10. to become rust-colored. 
–verb (used with object)
11. to affect with rust. 
12. to impair as if with rust. 
13. to make rust-colored. 
–adjective
14. having the color rust. 
—Verb phrases
15. rust out, (of metal pipes, machinery, etc.) to decay and become unusable through the action of rust. 
16. rust through, to develop holes, breaks, or the like, because of rust. 
17. rust together, to join two metal pieces, as iron pipes, by causing the joint to rust. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: bef. 900; (n.) ME; OE rūst; c. G Rost; (v.) ME rusten, deriv. of the n.; akin to red]


—Synonyms 2. corrosion. 9. decay, decline.

ru·bric      /ˈrubrɪk/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[roo-brik] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a title, heading, direction, or the like, in a manuscript, book, statute, etc., written or printed in red or otherwise distinguished from the rest of the text. 
2. a direction for the conduct of divine service or the administration of the sacraments, inserted in liturgical books. 
3. any established mode of conduct or procedure; protocol. 
4. an explanatory comment; gloss. 
5. a class or category 
6. Archaic. red ocher. 
–adjective
7. written, inscribed in, or marked with or as with red; rubrical. 
8. Archaic. red; ruddy.

@Helm, thank you.

[Cure]

@Adrias, everything isn't a math problem.

Chemistry problem.


Sorry, I had to.

[Hawk]

@Adrias, everything isn't a math problem.

Chemistry problem.


Sorry, I had to.

Actually that phrase retains to an inside joke from an earlier conversation.

Anyway I'll post an update tommorrow.

[Helm]

refers

[ptoing]

everything isn't a math problem.

everything isn't == nothing is != not everything is

[ndchristie]

Even the far more liberal usages of the word do not describe your piece.  The words you chose are wrong.  There’s no shame in using a word wrong, but why defend them?



Not everything is a math problem, nor do I intend nor have I ever intended to view it or speak of it as such.  That bit of canned "philosophy" is even more pretentious than the intentional misuse of obscure words that do not relate to your meanings.  Logic, however, plays an important role in some places.  The illogical is the stuff of romance and beauty, and not the stuff of critical discussion, or, in the case of our earlier discussion, in business deals.  Would you hire a person who constantly spoke incorrectly about what he was doing?  Talk about a waste of time, and therefore of money!

If a person offered a critique with the same misuses of language that your posts do, you would, assuming that you care enough, say "hey, that word doesn't make sense the way you used it.  What do you really mean?"

[robalan]

Woo semantics and grammar!  Um...I'll just repeat the critiques that have already been made.  Helm's edit can provide you with a wealth of information; I look forward to seeing your update.  Also, listen to what people are saying about your use of language; precision in statements is important, especially on the internet where facial expression, body language, and other forms of non-verbal communication are not possible