The B.O.B.'s Dump: B.O.B. finally submits something new...

[The B.O.B.]

   So here it is. This is what really got me into pixeling. Along time ago, when I was younger, I decided to try and create a dumb little street fighter mock up. Over the years, I began getting serious with developing each of the characters. They literally started as stick figures, and progressed their way up from pillow-shaded characters, noisy/messy shaded skins and tones, anatomically incorrect figures, to this.
   Of course these aren't perfect, but I still love them for what they are: a representation of what I've learned over the past from watching others pixel artists, and their technique. I do understand that most these characters are desaturated, to almost being one palette ramp of hue/color. I kinda' wanted that with each of the characters, to almost have his own color to represent certain characteristics for aesthetic reasons. I guess  it's just to define that this isn't an SNK style, nor Capcom style, but more over, MY style. Have I achieved this?
   As stated before, this primarily started out as fighting game mock up characters, but I realized that they are too detailed at the moment to animate. So instead, when my artistic skills reach their peak, my dream is to make a comic of these characters, since I already have a basic story line, that I've also worked on since I was younger.(you wouldn't believe the dumb ass ideas I had when I was younger...) Not to mention, that these guys have been in my computer for about 6 months, and haven't had any other eyes on them.




and ladies section for the perves


All characters (c) of The B.O.B.
***actually, for any of you Final Fight fans, if you'll notice the 3rd to last character at the bottom of the page(the big, gorilla, looking fellow) is actually my remake of the second to last boss from the original Final Fight, named Abigail(the big Andore pallete swap character, that had white face paint...turned red, and charged at you when ever he was pissed)***

   If you notice, there is one character up there that people helped me with in the past. It looked ok, but you guys helped me make it better. So I was wondering, with the artistic knowledge just a-flowin' around here, is there any flaws with the character designs, or something else that could use some fixin'/editing?(understand that these characters aren't supposed to be perfect by natural anatomy, but if it looks too strange, then I'll be sure to work on it)

More crap:






ANIMATED WIP:












The fan arts!!1!(one):

[Souly]

Seems to be a lack of female characters. 

Anyways, I think these are all great.
The colors you've picked are just wonderful.
Each character has his own personality.

Except for the first two, I don't know why but they're in the same pose.
You probably did that for a reason.

But honestly, I love each and every one of these.
The amount of detail and characterism you've put into these is just amazing.

[Ragnarok]

Seems to be a lack of female characters. 

Yah, where are all the laaadies?

[Akzidenz]

Second image, top row, fourth from the left looks dangerously like Remy (SF3).



Second image, bottom row, far left is a bit similar to Earthquake from the Samurai Shodown/Sprits series. But not too similar.

First image, second row, far left reminds me a little of Hugo from SF3. But just barely. He's not blind or fat or clumsy.

Those are the only similarities I could find, though.

Overall, these are really impressive.. the only real criticism that I have is that the solid black outline seems odd. There aren't many (any?) good fighting games that use that method. It doesn't look ugly, by any means, but it makes them seem a little more foreign because it's outside of the vernacular.

I'm really curious about what the idle stances for some of these would be. Especially first image, second row, middle fighter. Is he a drunk?

They're all well-pixeled, but the stances for some are better than others. Second image, second row, middle is pretty bland. Second image, first row, middle just seems awkward. Second image, bottom row, far right is interesting.. but if this were an actual game, it'd feel really weird to play a fighter who always had his back to the screen.

Really nice work overall.

[im9today]

Except for the first two, I don't know why but they're in the same pose.
You probably did that for a reason.

I think they are using capoeira, a kind of almost dance like fighting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capoeira

[The B.O.B.]

im9today: You sir, are correct. Also, they are kinda' the main characters of the story line. Hence the stereo typical study of the same martial arts/pose. They are by no means, however, palette swaps, or copies of each other.

@Akzidenz: My character does bear resemblance to Remy. In fact, I was playing SF3 when I was updating some of these, so you might spot some subconscious-inspired sf3 pieces. Wasn't trying to achieve an earthquake feel with the character you mentioned though. I was also using the black outline for each of the  characters so colors wouldn't clash against this websites back ground. In my file, they are actually without outlines. The fighter in the second row, the off-balance biker, is drunk actually. He uses a drunken Chinese boxing style, similar to those Jacky Chan movies(drunken master) The last character, the goth guy, is actually the antagonist, and his stance was meant to keep his back to the opponent. Kinda' like a nonchalant, egotistical personality where disrespect is shown to the opposite opponent, by not facing him.

And yes, I know there are no female characters listed here...I do have some in my files, but I'm not done fully creating their designs.

Thanks for the critiques folks!

[Ryumaru]

last one in the second row and the two last ones are my fav.
sure there are many nitpicks to be made, but with this kinda stuff, its not really worth it. i know you said you werent going to make any animations, but how about some backgrounds? a mockup would be uber sweet.

[Akzidenz]

@Akzidenz: My character does bear resemblance to Remy. In fact, I was playing SF3 when I was updating some of these, so you might spot some subconscious-inspired sf3 pieces.

Yeah, I kind of figured - top image, top row, far right reminds me a lot of Alex, even though the character and fighting style are obviously different. The ninja right below him seems very Ibuki-inspired, down to the palette, but that sort of poofy-pants ninja character has been around forever so it doesn't really feel like you're copying (and the stance is really interesting and different). Top image, top row, second from left is practically a Capoera version of Sean, but I think it's mostly due to the palette. The actual design of the character is worlds apart.

I don't know if the average person would notice that kind of stuff, though. I think it just sticks out to me because I've been playing 3rd Strike for years.

[im9today]

I see Sagat and Venom (from Guilty Gear, not the Marvel Venom :x) types too. But I think overall these are very different designs than you see in Japanese fighting games, and that's refreshing.

[Feron]

i think the trousers on the last guy in the first row are the best trousers ive ever seen.

my favs are the first from the 4th and 5th rows.

i think your use of low color counts per sprite is actually amazing, especially on the two sagat look-a-likes!

Got anymore hidden works you like to share, after all this is your dump...

[pkmays]

I do understand that most these characters are desaturated, to almost being one palette ramp of hue/color.

That really isn't a problem, persay. The problem is, with so many similar colors, you'll have to rely on contrast more since you aren't using such a wide gamut of hues. Many of these loose a lot of clarity from lack of contrast. Hands get lost inside bodies, legs lost behind capes, facial features lost inside heads. I personally love what you've done with the character designs and matching color schemes, but most of the palettes suffer from a lack of contrast.

One general issue I have is with the inconsistent shading and detailing of muscles. For example, 1-5, 2-1, 3-3, and 4-2 have very soft lines and shades to define the muscle, whereas 2-4, 4-1, 5-3 and onward are much sharper. Lots of black lines also give the muscles a harsh segmented insectoid Dragon Ball Z look. No me gusta.



This one has some of the harshest details from the pieces I've seen, which is unfortunate, because it also has some of the strongest line art. The thing that really kills it for me is the amount of dark black lines within the sprite. I like the black around the perimeter of the sprite, and black lines can be an important asset to clarify overlapping limbs with palettes this specialized.

My edit for the most part just lightens up most of the internal black lines, and tweaking the contrast while trying to stay true to the original. Using contrasty shades does just as good a job as black lines do, and it doesn't make the details nearly as busy. The fingers where dissapearing in the pants, so I also upped the contrast for clarity. Also made some drastic changes to the shading of the arm, so it's readable as cybernetics. (Although I did lose the sheen. You could probably do better.)

Also, I HATE flat feet on large fighters. It looks horribly amateurish. A lot of effort goes into making a fighter sprite "pop" and convey volume, and flat feet ruin the whole effect for me. The previously posted Remy sprite is a bad example because he actually has the flattest angle to his stance in 3rd Strike. All the other Street Fighter 3 characters have a much steeper angle on their feet. If flat feet are intentional and you're going for some sort of old school look, keep the angle. Otherwise I'd highly recommend you give a slight slope to everyone's stance.



This piece suffers from the exact opposite of the first: not enough internal detail/contrast where it's needed. For the edit, I attempted to make the skin and shirt clearly distinguishable from the jacket and pants. Jacket sleeves and pants have folds that flow with the limbs. Hair, while probably not correct according to the original design, is readable and doesn't mix in with the red shoulder thing. Buckles and straps pop more, and no more flat foot.

Another inconsistency is lighting. For the most part, it seems to become from the top right, although on several characters it looks like its coming directly from the left. Putting the light source to the side effectively forces one half of the character in light, the other in shade, split down the middle. It also gives a pillow shaded effect in some areas, most noticeable on the torso and legs. The traditional top light source tends to make for a more readable character, IMO. Limbs especially seem more readable when an arm or leg is extended horizontally.

Anyway, despite all the criticism, I actually love the hell out of these. The ninja, especially, tickles my pickle.

[Akzidenz]

Third Strike's characters are about half-and-half when it comes to their idle stances having feet that move in z-space, but all of them make use of it in their animations. It seems intentional, though - the stiffer, sturdier characters have flat feet (Shotos, Remy, etc) while the larger gangly characters and the more fluid characters try to break the 2D plane more.

Elena's probably the best example out of all of them - the sort of space that's used in her animation would look really beautiful on a number of your sprites, especially the capoeira fighters or drunky:

[Joshua]

Dude, very impressive. I love the brownish palettes.

[The B.O.B.]

First image, second row, far left reminds me a little of Hugo from SF3. But just barely. He's not blind or fat or clumsy.

@Akzidenz: I missed that. Actually, the Giant Native American Indian/Wrestler(gotta love stereotypes) is blind, which is why his back is an almost facing the right to the opponent...I thought a blind wrestler would be a good spin off from the normal everyday wrestler variations.

@pkmays: Wow, those are great edits. It's funny though, cause you are the billionth person to tell me that I need to up my contrast. I don't really know why it ends up that way. Might be the way my cpu is set up with resolution, or brightness...might just be me. I'll try fixing it up. By the way, I also have noticed that all my characters seemingly have flat feet. I don't like such generic positions like that, but I have much trouble trying to capture the proper perspective of feet facing downward sometimes.

   My edit for the most part just lightens up most of the internal black lines, and tweaking the contrast while trying to stay true to the original. Using contrasty shades does just as good a job as black lines do, and it doesn't make the details nearly as busy. The fingers where dissapearing in the pants, so I also upped the contrast for clarity. Also made some drastic changes to the shading of the arm, so it's readable as cybernetics. (Although I did lose the sheen. You could probably do better.)

   Actually, pk, they aren't robotic arms. They are, more-over, synthetic plastic arm guards, that help protect his wilted arm, like the material used for Knee braces that linemen wear for football.(although some of it may be made of metal, there is no electricity involved...)That's the main reason that part of the arm is so dark, with a smidge of "sheen". Also, I think I might have confused people with this character. He is not a robot at all. I'm not sure if you accidentally see his face as a metal jaw, or something, but to clarify, his right eye is scarred, and completely black due to mistreatment, and he actually has a goatee....
   But again, thanks for the amazing edits. It was a great way to help me see just how bad the contrast issue was. I'll see if I can update some of the characters when I get some down time...(work sucks balls)

[Akzidenz]

@Akzidenz: I missed that. Actually, the Giant Native American Indian/Wrestler(gotta love stereotypes) is blind, which is why his back is an almost facing the right to the opponent...I thought a blind wrestler would be a good spin off from the normal everyday wrestler variations.

Hahaha.. don't sweat it. I didn't figure out that Hugo was blind for close to a year after I started playing. Pretty cool that you had the same thoughts as the creators of SF3, though.

[The B.O.B.]

And now we have a ladies section, for the gentlemen to play with...



Her character is supposed to be a stripper, in a cow-girl gettup'. I understand about feminism and stuff, but why beat around the bush ya know. Would help lots if you fellas could help me improve on anatomy a bit, seeing as how last time, you really helped me with the other female fighters I posted.

(I'll be awaiting the scoffs, and upturned noses to my stereotypical fan-serviced, half-naked lady banter...)

P.S. Akzidenz, I did not know Hugo was blind. I noticed he was the only character with his eyes closed half the time, and how they were pure white when opened. Never knew the poor, big guy was blind though. Crazy. Him and Urien(everyone's favorite over-tanned, thonged, master of disaster) were always my favorites. Though I'm pretty sure my skillz are pretty rusty at the game now.(I also read in rottentomatoes.com, that capcom was planning to redo another movie variation of Street Fighter, centering the plot line around Chun-li...Hope it doesn't bomb like it's ultimate crap-ass Van-Damme predecessor.)

[Akzidenz]

P.S. Akzidenz, I did not know Hugo was blind. I noticed he was the only character with his eyes closed half the time, and how they were pure white when opened. Never knew the poor, big guy was blind though. Crazy. Him and Urien(everyone's favorite over-tanned, thonged, master of disaster) were always my favorites. Though I'm pretty sure my skillz are pretty rusty at the game now.(I also read in rottentomatoes.com, that capcom was planning to redo another movie variation of Street Fighter, centering the plot line around Chun-li...Hope it doesn't bomb like it's ultimate crap-ass Van-Damme predecessor.)

Yeah, someone pointed that out to me once. I don't know if it's official SF canon, but if you look at all of his animations it makes sense. Also, his girlfriend/ho, Poison, is a transsexual (and that actually is canon, believe it or not). Shame you don't live in California, we could've thrown down. My main character's been Oro for over a year now, I'm finally getting to the point where I don't get my ass handed to me by the pros 10/10 matches. Urien's crazy fun though, and a bitch to play against.

[baccaman21]

superb material here BOB old bean... beautiful rendered...

one thing I would say aside from the outlines (which has been dealt with) - is purely an issue regarding the designs... I think... I really do think... that these would take a fucking age to animate were they to be incorporated fully... why am I saying that? Well... primarily it comes down to amount of peripheral items or elements that each of these fighters have... I know from experience that the more stuff you add... the longer each seuqences takes to create as you have to do additional passes for each element...

Suffise to say I doubt you'll get round to doing a full suite of fighting actions for them?... or will you? (nah... I doubt it ) but if you were... I think you'd have some fun...

Some great stuff here though... one of the things I never got round to doing was a bunch of fighters... good work fella!

[CrematedPumpkin]

i think the trousers on the last guy in the first row are the best trousers ive ever seen.

I have to agree; those are very nice trousers. They are very poofy.

The females section isn't quite as appealing in terms of artwork, but that's just me. Very, very good overall.

[Ragnarok]

I'd just be the last man, or the second woman. Oh, and pwn everyone. MUST... PLAY... GAME... NOW!!!

[Filax_666]

What can I say, these are too awesome...I've been waiting for you to show them since you first mentioned them, in an old topic. I don't think I could have been more amazed

I really liked this character, but I thought he could be a little improved with some more refining and pallete tweaking (the latter did not come out as well as I expected, but still...), so I did an edit...


I think the only thing that's missing is a bit of tweaking here and there, and maybe a few changes to one or two concepts. Give them the chance and they'll be amazing
Oh, and more ladies.

[Sherman Gill]

The second lady is my favorite .
Random criticism (Using coordinates):
1:1: The flowy cloth thing coming out of his pocket, the curve on the bottom is kinda weird.
1:2: something with this guy's stomach is really weird, hard to tell.
1:4: This guy's leg muscles are really well defined, being that he's wearing semi-loose pants.
3:1: The... Bulb on the back of this guys leg is just plain weird.

[Helm]

There's a lot that could be said, but I always have trouble critiquing lots of art at once. B.O.B, do me a favour. Post ONE sprite. One which you think is your strongest. And then prepare for critpain.

[The B.O.B.]

   Ahhh, the infamous Helm post. Always a rarity find praise in your posts my friend, but nothing I can't handle. First, let me tend to past issues, if I may:
 


pkmays: Alright, I decided to take a look at him, and up the contrast on the guy, as well as outline the hand so it is better visible and distinguishable towards the viewer. Also, I brightened up the red on his clothes to make it stand out more, and gave him a tiny beer pudge on his belly.(the top portion is just the underlined sprites, and the bottom is without) I hope it improved a wee bit.

And now...Helm:

   Oy, choosing one sprite that I think is the strongest is extremely hard for me, since; 1) I've worked on all these for a long ass amount of time, and can't tell which I did the best on, and 2) no matter which I think is the best, I'm pretty sure you'll have loads to harp on it about.
   Despite these personal issues, I have a clue as to whom I should bring out. And it's not like I'm coming into battle without armor here, since I'm fully aware of several issues that would be brought up before submitting them, such as anatomy issues(several have longer upper torsos), a definite Contrast issue(actually, this trait is apparent in all my works, and I'm still trying to find out why I'm doing this), terrible female anatomy, busy-ness in small areas that are too hard to define, and others. Not to mention, an expectancy of advice to go back and study anatomy a bit more. But I'm a man of my word, and my word is to get better, none the less. So I choose this warrior to send into the lions den:



So...rip it apart, I'm ready.

[ptoing]

Just wanted to say that most if not all of Elena's animation is rotoscoped... badly.

[The B.O.B.]

   Well Ptoing, I wouldn't say it was done that badly. I mean, any one who is deep into pixeling can see what is and isn't pixeled by hand. Well, purely speaking for myself, when I first saw her Ginga(what capoeristas refer to as their idle standard movement) I knew that it wasn't pixeled by hand purely,(and loads of random pixels popping out of her outline)due to loss of detail of her digits. She practically has no fingers or toes during her animation, which is a big clue. That, and the fact that her head in the Ginga looks pasted on to her fluid body. Still though, I tend to over-look these small details, when she is such a fun character to play with.

   Also, in pixel art, WHEN IS rotoscoping a good thing, considering pixel art is "supposedly" made up of strategically placed pixels? Just wanting to know since you have a more experienced background, and if this is "bad", than maybe you might be able to present some examples of a job better done than presently mentioned to these virgin eyes...

[Helm]

Okay. This'll be long.



Colors:

Okay, from the top. You need two distinct ramps if you want to have clothes on your characters. Why is that? It's because if you use flesh shades on clothing, usually it just looks as if the clothing is full of holes and the flesh is showing below.

Secondly, it's not a bad idea to have a fighter wear complementary colors, just makes it more interesting than the single color hue palettes you've got going.

Finally, if you're going to have a bright thing somewhere, why not use the bright shades for highlights on the flesh? This isn't going to be animated anyway (or if it is, there's no point to cut corners, you've got a painful animation to do anyway) so the extra detailing is okay.

Subtle hue shifts are a good idea.

Lighting:

As it was mentioned, lighting a sprite from a side is not a good idea in fighting games, because when they turn around... does the world flip its lightsource too? This is a good reason to keep to vertical lighting and not horisontal ones. You might get away with a few degrees, but I'd watch it. I didn't adress this on the edit as much as I could, but you should keep that in mind anyway.

Contrastwise, the full-camera-flash white on the pants really isn't the best idea in the world, but it can work once in a while. If you find yourself doing it too much, you're basically going to tire eyes out and make more subtle speculars get lost in the whitewash.

There's no segmentation on the human body, no matter how packed you are which I think would deserve a black line. A black single dot here and there is fine, as is a full line and where a limb is over a torso or somesuch. But otherwise I think it's too much. Only when darkness contributes should one be used.

Anatomy and posture:

The was no ear.

Hands needed a lot of work, legs are too fat around the ankles and the feet a bit malformed.

A few invented muscles in the arms, and the connection between chest and shoulderpad a bit vague.

Neck tendons that connect to the head invented.

The back foot was in a bit of an impossible position given the 2d perspective. Even the one pixel difference I've kept seems wrong. I'd suggest losing the flatfootedness as told to by pkmays also, but I've kept it for the purposes of the edit.

People have nipples.

Detail work:

the armors in the hands are a bit too busy still. Simplifying is important for something to read well fast, as it should in such a sprite.

Usually, groups of threes are better than groups of twos, but I decided to simplify more on the various cloth tendrils being hit by what only could be a large fan throwing strong winds at the fighter. Also an issue. When the sprite turns around, does the direction of the wind also?

Remember that in shadow things aren't as detailed.

[ptoing]

Good crit there Helm.

About the rotoscoping, I have not seen a good example in pixelart, but it could be done well. The thing here is that rotoscoping is not as easy as it seems, in normal animation as well. So if someone does it who has not much clue of general animation it's highly probable to get the same kinda errors as in lots of Elena's anims. Namely "frying lines" and popping up of detail.

[Helm]

check out Flashback for rotoscoped-bases that are then tended pixel-by-pixel.

[ptoing]

check out Flashback for rotoscoped-bases that are then tended pixel-by-pixel.

*smacks forehead*

[baccaman21]

mission impossible?

barbarian?

[big brother]

Here's my take. Yeah, I know, I totally raped the style (although I think it might be easier to animate this way). I did this mainly to illustrate depth, color (since it's a sprite, it should look distinct from the others and stand out from the background), and the palette. If you want to shift colors for alternate schemes (necessary for mirror matches), you want to keep the regions separate (resist the urge to unify) by using a single ramp for each.

[Ryona]

Lovely sprites, B.O.B.! 
Each one of them has so much character and style. And I really love the subdued colors. Gives them a nice, dark, gritty feel.

The only thing that stood out as looking odd to me was the female fighter with the swords. Her swords look like they're going through her thighs. Maybe a subtle line to seperate them might be good.


It's really amazing hearing how they started out as such a simple idea, and such simple sprites into the gorgeous masterful pixel wonders they are now. And I'm also very interested by your idea of creating a comic to host these cool characters of yours. I'd so love to see that. 

 

[The B.O.B.]

UPDATE:




   Thanks to some advice from Helm, Big Brother, and others, I've decided to update the character, for better or for worse. After a hard look at the anatomy of the character, I noticed it, as well as the perspective was broken(which again, I would like to reiterate that I break perspectives for a living...). His body looked as if it was twisted unnaturally, and shifted towards the right.
Here are the changes, that I can remember:

*So I just shortened him down, moved the front leg towards the viewer a little more to gain a better perspective of the ginga(as well as trying to get rid of the flat feet, to gain a better plain of movement)
 
*Gave him a little roll of fat to show some strain in the movement
 
*Tried separating the palette a between the pants, and skin(still wanting to keep the notion of a single color that each character must retain, for story/plot purposes)

*gave him ears and others that I can't quite remember

***Edit***
* I just noticed he looks off balance in this point of view...does anybody else notice this?

   By the way, Big brother, I loved the style you put the character in. The way the feet and shoulder was depicted, really helped me see the incorrect parts of my sprite. As for Ryona, I'll take a look at the Stripper, and see if I could tweak it a bit, so there is some separation between her leg and the swords. And Helm, the coloring on your edit was inspiring, but a little too hard for me pull off myself. However, I did understand each thing you said, and agreed with the majority of them. The only thing is I kinda wanted to keep the tattered black tape around his arms, as well as a bit more tatters on the pants, as it represents something to the character himself. However, if this new edit isn't as pleasing as it's predecessor, than I'll change it.
   Oh, and also:
 

People have nipples.

that's the greatest quote that I have ever heard. 

[Conceit]

oh noes...the B.O.B is changing one of his sprites. I think it's a good thing, pero tu sabes como I like your style, te lo dije la primera vez que posteaste tus mujeres. I would prefer you stick to your own style rather than Helm's, and I have the feeling he would too.

if you're gonna add a different hue-ramp for his pants, I think you should use something more purplish. also you're gonna have to make your white pants a few notches darker, the arm bandages are looking pretty garish right now, that whole area looks like a big mess, so you better make sure the gray ramp has more tones for the dark bandages.

I completly see lo que decias about the new edit being off balance, not only that but it loses some of the composition aspects that make the pose so bad ass. in the old one the tigh-knee were in an angle that made it look like they were aligned to the forearm, and that gave the sprite much of it's flow. now its gone

if you're gonna shorten the leg, you should not change where the knee is at, you should move his butt and make him bend his back,change ANYTHING but the position of that freakin knee.

also...WHY IN THE HELL did you remove those shadows in his bicep and tricep? those were beautiful stuff AAAAAH...I think it's no mistery to anybody that 2d sprites flip around, they have always done shamelessly so, and now that 3d is in full rage nobody expects them to start looking more realistic. I belive we should just accept the medium with all of it's quirks, and make them into part of pixelart's appeal.

This might be controversial to say or something, but I think it's OK to make something stylized and wacky looking if you chose to do consciously, I mean I dont think anyone ever told frank miller that humans dont really have as many wrinkles as Marv, or that his shoulders were way too wide...so nobody should give u trouble about drawing a nipple-less guy if that makes him look better. what upsets me isnt that people tell you that, obviously everybody has their own preferences, but why are you so quick to give in?

[Helm]

oh noes...the B.O.B is changing one of his sprites. I think it's a good thing, pero tu sabes como I like your style, te lo dije la primera vez que posteaste tus mujeres. I would prefer you stick to your own style rather than Helm's, and I have the feeling he would too.

I made a conscious effort to not change the 'style' of the sprite, unilke Big Brother's edit. I guess my best isn't enough not not have 'Helm changed the style again!!'.

B.O.B has a lot to learn - not from me, generally - before he has to consider sacrificing correctness for personal aesthetic so boldly as say, a seasoned veteran like Frank Miller does. First you learn it right, then you break it. Your post in my opinion is counterintuitive for people who want to learn. If B.O.B. - or anyone - does not want to sacrifice anything of their 'style' so they can correct what are widely percieved as errors in their work, they should not ask for critique here. That's fine, I don't ask critique for most of my comics for example, and I'm fine with a lot of stuff that are usually considered errors in them.

I hope we don't derail this thread, but it's a valid point to bring up, I feel.


B.O.B: I really feel the new stance/perspective couldn't work with most fighter sprite backgrounds, it's a bit more 'from above' than the sideways that um, sidescrollers need. Pull it back a bit, not completely platformy like the originals, but not such a big height difference between where the two feet rest. Most of the other bits of editing I find agreeable for one.

[The B.O.B.]

This might be controversial to say or something, but I think it's OK to make something stylized and wacky looking if you chose to do consciously, I mean I dont think anyone ever told frank miller that humans dont really have as many wrinkles as Marv, or that his shoulders were way too wide...so nobody should give u trouble about drawing a nipple-less guy if that makes him look better. what upsets me isnt that people tell you that, obviously everybody has their own preferences, but why are you so quick to give in?

   I give in so easily because every time someone critiques any piece I send in, it's always the same issue, different person. It's either A) " Blargh! Me no see detail in pixel piece! Me want Contrast, more Contrast!!!!", or B) " Your anatomy needs work...learn it...or die."

   When more than one person keeps telling you about the same issue, over and over, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't hurt for something to change. Plus this is a forum for critique. I'm literally asking for help on how to make it better, every time I send something in. I still don't quite understand if I have a style or not, thats just not certain in my opinion. However, I'm always willing to improve, and if changing certain points of my current "style" will help others identify it as more pleasing to the eye, well then I'm much obliged to cooperate. But I can understand that the previous sprite looks a little better, than the updated version. I remember cringing while I changed certain parts. I'll be sure to keep the older version, and work on it a little more, though.
***EDIT***(Looks like Helm beat me to the punch of the explanation...No worries, his soul will pay dearly for interrupting thee after I thrash it about)

   Thanks for the in-depth critique! It's nice to finally hear some body who wants me to keep the style, for a change!

[im9today]

I don't think adding nipples and ears detract from style any. I think your new version looks much better personally, although I don't see why you added a hole to the cloth, and I think the 'tattered tape' looks better as the one strand in Big Brother's edit and would be a hell of a lot easier to animate or reposition if you do anything more with this.

Big Brother's edit reminds me a lot of Fatal Fury Real Bout Special, really nice work. :3

[pkmays]

I think you'll have a good thing going if you keep the palette ramp idea and nix the black outlines (and yes, watch out for contrast issues). As long as you have a couple of colors (like the red in the drunk boxer, the bright yellow in the capoeira fighter) there should be enough variety to keep things separated and interesting.

I do like how big brother only used outline in the dark underside areas of his sprite, while pretty much eliminating any outlines on the upward facing highlighted areas. Might be something to look into.

[Conceit]

When more than one person keeps telling you about the same issue, over and over, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't hurt for something to change.

Let's just say I disagree on that account, that only means what you're being told is a pretty strong trend in the enviroment you're getting critiqued, to succesfully improve I belive you should (1) analyze whether this has a fundamental basis (2) wether or not it has anything to do with what you are trying to achieve.

Basically, I just want to make sure your progress isnt driven by people's critiques, you should drive it and critiques should serve only as a...positioning device :p in keeping with the movement analogy.

but I digress, check your PMs so we can have an IM chat.

[The B.O.B.]

Yay! Re-awakening dead threads!(equips anti-Panda ban shield)


   Well, this is a dump, so I guess I'll post different stuff on here from now on.
It's supposed to be a cutesy, gothic, worm-squid-mon....actually, I don't know what the hell it is. I just needed some second opinions before coloring it. It looks to me as if it needs more frames to complete the movement/right tilt so it doesn't look drunk. However, I don't wanna have to freakin' animate each individual tentacle again. Twas painful, it was...Any ideas how I could go about this before finishing?(calls upon the masters of animation)

[Larwick]

Awesome.
Because he's squelching/tilting to one side, id have him also squelch/tilt to the other. Personally i'd ignore the tenticles for now, cus they'd just get the in way for me. (One of them seems to grow, and almost have something invisible underneath it?) Also, perhaps try to curve out the lines along the centre of the body, so it doesnt look so flat. Looks cool though.

[sharprm]

You can just repeat the tentacle animation for the tilt to the other side. I think its looking good except i
dont think the lower belt should move down. Also I think the head should move a few pixels to the left
as it tilts.

[Xion]

The head remains flat as it rotates, but I'd expect it to maybe lower a bit on the left to show curvature.
And ditto on the "make it rock right."
Otherwise, looking good...
Almost too good...

[alkaline]

i like how you try to make everything as animated as possible - that's the way you give animation life. the tentacle movement could be more smooth though. also the belt thing on the bottom tilts the other way.

[Conceit]

that's the way you give animation life.

that's the disney way...to give animation life. anime uses good timing and flashy movements. disney is barroque while anime is minimalistic.

but yeah, that guy is looking pretty cool...I can imagine his slipery shiny purple skin inside a goth-ish gear....its a very clever little design

I think this, SPECIALLY the tentacles would have been much much easier had you just made it in sillouethe and brushed everything in, I think its pointless to put so much work on an outline that is going to get ereased by the coloring anyway.

you do know that his left front tentacle elongates VERY noticeably as it whips around dont you? that also happens with the other tentacle...it isnt as noticeable, but there is something unnatural about the way it uncurls. see in the last curled frame, it is very curled but the first uncurled frame doesnt show that, I think that frame should show a little more tension (by making the tentacle's curves less pronounced) to relfect there was a quick spasm there.

hmmm there's little tricks for loopings like this, when you animate his head tilting to the other side you could have the tentacles drop some...2 pixels to the left of where they do now, if done cleverly it isnt obvious and really looks as new content.

for the tilting to the other side, you could have him move a little to the left while still twisted as he is in the end of the anim, and get straight still moved to the left, then slide back into the center. it's stupid little tricks like that which help make a loop look more lively

er....his face deforms as he twitches, the left side of his face elongates.

whats with the hair hanging of the right side of his face? why does it move up like that when he leans to the right?

[The B.O.B.]

Aaaannnnddddd, here's some of the pieces that ran through my head during the competition. Some were ok, others were plain shit. And some...just odd:



In my opinion the Easter bunny was the only thing that stood a chance of making it.

The orange thing sucked balls.

The green angler fish/porcupine was all types of crap.

I kinda liked the horned fellow,(the darkest piece) and the giant, sun-rock gollum, with the
orange/yellowish backdrop attacking Triangle village.

The leech was meh.

Oh, and in case any one is wondering, The monster in the gray, is a Playboy monster. It loves to attack young boys who are coming of age whilst they fap. It's like dangling a worm in front of a giant pirahna...I would have chose it to go through for creativity, but no one would have known what the hell it was,
unless I told them. And that was a must.

The bottom right corner was the last thing I was working on. I have no clue what it was. It was supposed to be blind, with a mutated arm with eyes to see it's prey. It's eyes were replaced with horns. Too messy to be sent in, nothing in it is readable at all. Just a failure, to be blunt.

Whelp, that's all folks. Pixel with ya' later!

[Conceit]

I was really surprsised about the contrast in your piece BOB, the broken outline problem wasnt even in the pixeling, it was in the extremely exagerated lightness jump from the outline to the darkest shade. it seems like it's desperately trying to cover every single spot of the canvas therefore I dont really like the composition. The design is kinda MEH too..reminds me of those cartoons that started showing up imitating TMNT like Motor Mices Bikers from Mars(or whatever) and Street Sharks

Easter bunny defintively looked better than the biped thing with gougy eyes, the porcupine and that weird thing at the right-botton most corner.

I belive every other monster is if not superior atleast equal to the easter bunny, because of the dramatic pose and the hi contrast (I'm a contrast addict) I like the Playboy demon the most. On a second spot are both the green worm, and the golden fog thing, in the third place is that brainiac thing on a blue background, because although the pallete isnt very good I like it's design best from them all.

if I were you, I would have worked on the golden fog thing (which I now realized is actually a scene of a bull creature invading some town) it just needed a little more clarity and dramatic lighting on the bull creature (like what you have on the Playboy demon) and it would have been a really good piece.

[Ryumaru]

that demon is beyond bad ass.

[GOODNIGHTdestroyer]

BOB, you're definetely going to be a tough competitor if I beat mirre.