[WIP] Partisan Tactics Battles : Animations, woah

[snake]

I haven't read up everything on the topic yet, I'll admit that. None the less, I thought I'd point out something that's been bothering me about some of the characters.



Edits on top. I just felt some of 'em were a little flat of out of perspective. The crack in the cloak on the right characters seemed to stray to much to the right in my eyes, but as you can see in my edit (the one on the far right) the feet look out of perspective then, so I'm a little puzzled by that at the moment. Can't remake the feet at this point, so the edit might not be necessary. *shrug*

Oh, just ignore the Link. I'm drugged on Twilight Princess 

[ndchristie]

How about a warlock/mage?  It may be a bit more Warcraft than FFT, but it will be fun to create and adds more variance.

there is no simple Mage class in the game because the main story revolves around a conflict between the alchemists, a tradition that has existed for centuries, and the mechanists who believe in the independant powers of science and engineering

here is an explanation of the types of "magic" as best i can give it:

mechanical - this is not really even "magic," the processes being entirely scientific in nature.
                             spells = tools.  flamethrowers, watercannons,  etc are used to generate effects.  my personal favorite is the Spanner: a basic tool thrown for non-elemental damage
                             constructs = clockwork soldiers.  essentially robots, they are connected to a character or soldier by a control band that picks up on impulses originating from the wearer's brain.  the farther they are from the wearer, the weaker the signal waves, so the weaker the construct.

alchemical - this magic type involves the harnessing of demons that reside within all things.
                             spells = runecards.  demon spirits, such as fire demons, water demons, etc, are trapped within each rune and then released to generate effects.
                             constructs = summoned demons.  these demons who are actually manifested in the temporal plane because of a direct connection to the host via a talisman or other charm.  as the demon gets farther away from the bearer of the charm, its connection to the temporal plane is weakened, and it loses strength accordingly

there also will be certain character who harness Divine magics, which feed off the soul of the wielder and require years of spiritual exercise and training in order to use.  technically, all of these spells are considered skills, as they do not require the use of an item to be performed.  the divine are able to project their spirit a short way beyond their bodies, which functions similarly to a construct.

hope that clears things up

also, a top hat might be fun, but id have difficulty trying to work it into the job classes?  we're looking at effectively the 14-1600's with steampunk/da vinciesque machines and magic.  if you can figure a way to work it in, definately post



snake, thats intersting, and ill definately do some mild reworking to make it work better, particularly the heads, thanks for the input.  your link is 1337

[Feron]

Well perhaps you can have lords/dukes, people who are highest in the ranks and pretty much the control of the forces.

[ndchristie]

my main concern is that top hats were only made staring around 1800, but what do people think?  should i worry about anachronism in a game set in a renaissance-era island kingdom full of demons, robots, and pirates?  so far, the doctor is the only job class that has really busted out of the era

[big brother]

Maybe give the top hats to the doctors... They could be like the gentlemen doctors of the Victorian era. If it's the one class that doesn't fit, you might as well push it farther. Besides, the top hat would make them easily identifiable. For lower-ranked doctors, you could use a bowler hat instead.

After reading your descriptions, I doubt you should be worried about anachronism or even realism in this game.

[Darien]

After reading your descriptions, I doubt you should be worried about anachronism or even realism in this game.

I don't agree.  It's one thing to add machines and expect the player to accept it as a fantasy world with machines, that's one thing.  It's been done before anyways.  But if you just decide anything goes, it will be challenging the player's ability to take the game at least a little bit seriously.  Top hats seem borderline of what I would be comfortable seeing, at least that's how I feel at the moment.  Anything beyond that and I begin to lose interest.

[Sqorgar]

Sqorgar - bugger, at least in the sense i know it, does not connote homosexuality, i had no idea there was even the vaguest of connections.  furthermore i did not mean it in any sort of derrogatory manner, so i appologize for offense it caused.

I've been called worse. Still, now you know. "bugger" means to sodomize (not necessarily a man, it's not homosexual) and depending on who you are talking to, can be a very vulgar word up there with the f-word in the US.

also, i wasnt aware of skewing the shot in my favor, it was my understanding that you asked for 9 men on an isometric map, and i gave you a shot with 10 crammed into a rediculously small map, though now i do realise that what you wanted was something a bit more specific from that which you asked for.  you also, as darien has pointed out, have clearly skewd the shot in such a way that i think did your point more harm than good, by cramming in many more soldiers together than there ever would be in that tight an area, and none of them are characters or constructs.  as far as i can see, you havent really made a point with those image

I exaggerated the image to make the point. You have to design for a worst case scenario, and with the tile spaces you use, the worst case scenario is when units are lined up diagonally, such that they overlap each other. I could've used the same point using only four characters. And what was the number of units you said there would be? Six to ten with additional constructs? Even with just six per side (twelve total), it is easily conceivable that a situation could arise where they are clumped together in a brutal melee battle. Yes, it is an absolute worst case scenario, but it's not as exaggerated as you think.

You see, the correct way to look at that isn't "something like that probably won't happen", but instead "what am I doing to make sure that won't happen?"

and, apparently, so do riflemen?

A rifleman has never been surrounded on all sides by melee characters?

Helm I think puts it best when he says, "I am not your little sister."

If I thought that you could handle what I said with dignity and grace, I wouldn't have removed it.

[Meta|Fox]

there is no simple Mage class in the game because the main story revolves around a conflict between the alchemists, a tradition that has existed for centuries, and the mechanists who believe in the independant powers of science and engineering

here is an explanation of the types of "magic" as best i can give it:

mechanical - this is not really even "magic," the processes being entirely scientific in nature.
                             spells = tools.  flamethrowers, watercannons,  etc are used to generate effects.  my personal favorite is the Spanner: a basic tool thrown for non-elemental damage
                             constructs = clockwork soldiers.  essentially robots, they are connected to a character or soldier by a control band that picks up on impulses originating from the wearer's brain.  the farther they are from the wearer, the weaker the signal waves, so the weaker the construct.

alchemical - this magic type involves the harnessing of demons that reside within all things.
                             spells = runecards.  demon spirits, such as fire demons, water demons, etc, are trapped within each rune and then released to generate effects.
                             constructs = summoned demons.  these demons who are actually manifested in the temporal plane because of a direct connection to the host via a talisman or other charm.  as the demon gets farther away from the bearer of the charm, its connection to the temporal plane is weakened, and it loses strength accordingly

there also will be certain character who harness Divine magics, which feed off the soul of the wielder and require years of spiritual exercise and training in order to use.  technically, all of these spells are considered skills, as they do not require the use of an item to be performed.  the divine are able to project their spirit a short way beyond their bodies, which functions similarly to a construct.

hope that clears things up

also, a top hat might be fun, but id have difficulty trying to work it into the job classes?  we're looking at effectively the 14-1600's with steampunk/da vinciesque machines and magic.  if you can figure a way to work it in, definately post



snake, thats intersting, and ill definately do some mild reworking to make it work better, particularly the heads, thanks for the input.  your link is 1337

Wow, this is really weird, i myself am all very interested in the whole Steampunk/magic/tophats kinda of thing and myself have always wanted to make a game like FFTA with that as its theme (alchemists and all)... its like you've had the near exacted same idea as i have... thats kinda annoying actually. Not that I'm attacking you or anything, its just... hrm. weird.

[ndchristie]

If I thought that you could handle what I said with dignity and grace, I wouldn't have removed it.

I hope you realise that a statement like this, and quite a few others you have made, is not a sign of the aforementioned qualities




so far, the only point youve made is that crowds are more difficult to see, which is common sense.  the images youve provided of my guys in a crowd are still easily readable to me, though they do take longer to see than when characters are spread out.
making these characters different colors and shapes will not solve that problem in our project or any project
do you have a solution to this problem in mind?

Meta - id love to hear your ideas, and the story is in early enough stages to add stuff that i think is good.  PM me or contact me over AIM if yould like to give ideas, youll be credited as an assistant writer/designer if our visions are close enough to each other's to be used

Big Brother - im going to see how that works out, update will have further details

Darien - I share your concerns really.  Tophats do seem to push the envelope, because i associate them with the post-napoleonic era, where the other things in the game have kept within a much earlier time, and the robots/magic is not out of the ordinary in a fantasy game

HOWEVER this does not mean that tophats do not belong in this game, though i think bowlers are a bit out of the question really, popularized in the late 1800s if im not mistaken, they really belong to a different setting

but about the tophat, this has given me an idea.  the kingdom in partisan is supposed to be bustling, full of people.  My idea is that everyone who wants their own minor character in the game, can have one if they like.  Feron, this means you

here is the form:

*INCLUDE A CROQUIS OF THE CHARACTER HERE SHOWING FRONT AND BACK VIEWS*

Name:

Personality:

Social Background:

Quest offered (if applicable):

Combat style / job class counterpart (if applicable):

Size and type of town likely to be found:

Stationary or Travelling?:

Additional Comments:

[Feron]

That would be an awesome idea,

I only kidding about tophats to begin with, but then i had a pretty cool vision of a sprite in this style wearing a tophat.

[Larwick]

This game sounds incredible from your description - just the kinda thing i'd be obsessed over. 

I do think tophats would be a nice thing to see, even once it would be quite cool. But i doubt they would really work on any of the current classes. I was actually thinking of NPC's, and i think your idea is pretty much that. 

[AdamAtomic]

Some more hat ideas:

Pope Hat
Fez
Tricorn
Floppy-Ass Beret
Head Wrap Thingy
Head Knob Whatchits
I'm Sure There Were A Lot Of White Samurai
FFT-Chemist Stylin
Old School
No Idea

Hope these help man!

[Xion]

If you do have a tophatted character in, some of the characters could make fun of his hat, thus furtherly pointing out the fact that it's out of place, and in one instance he could be like: "Laugh now, but it is the fashion of the future, comrades!" ... In a completely non-communistic way. 

[ndchristie]

adam - thanks for that, was already planning to have the floppy-ass hats on some of the characters and the foreigners sporting things like turbans and fez(es)? but the rest on the list are very helpfull ^^ i just need to find places for them ....thanks!

xion - lol...that gives me an idea....we already have anime guys that look a bit like girls, crayola-colored environments, pirates, and robots, so why not bring in someone like the traveller from HG Well's The Time Machine? HE could wear a top hat, and wed have even more of the typical cliches covered (we dont yet have spacemen, a long-lost civilization, or underage whores, but were getting there)

[Sherman Gill]

By croquis do you mean a pixel sketch or any type of sketch?

Also, Adam, those 'head wrap things' are called turbans.

[Sqorgar]

I hope you realise that a statement like this, and quite a few others you have made, is not a sign of the aforementioned qualities

Geez, just leave it alone. Seriously, if this is how you act when I DON'T say something mean, imagine what a pain in the ass you'd be if I did.

Fine, you want to know what I said? I said this project probably wouldn't ever get past the demo stage, if that, and the only people who would care would be you and people who like Final Fantasy Tactics - but not because they liked your game. Because they liked Final Fantasy Tactics. Because you are designing your characters and game around what you think Final Fantasy Tactics should be. You aren't making a game. You are making a simulacrum - something which resembles a game only in the fact that a game is what you are copying. It's an emulation of a game. A facade. There isn't a lick of individuality in your work, and while you are technically competent at pixel art, the world wouldn't shed a tear over your game or your art. It wouldn't even freaking notice it enough to care. You are making a crappy game because it is nothing more than a self centered vanity project. You don't want to make a good game. You want to make a game like Final Fantasy Tactics so that you can pretend that you have the same talent. This is fan art.

I removed that post for two reasons. The first is that it is too honest. I can say that stuff about most amateur projects, and indeed much of the art on this board. It's an easy thing to say because it is almost always true. People learn to trace before they learn to draw. I thought saying it out loud was extremely cruel and discouraging - which it is or isn't depending on where you are, but it's going to sting like hell no matter what. The second reason I removed it is because you weren't going to take it well at all. My guess is that you are going to get extremely defensive - I mean EXTREMELY defensive - and take it really personally. I removed my comments to prevent that. You got defensive and took THAT personally anyway, so I imagine this will be much worse.

But let me follow it up with something. You ARE a technically competent pixel artist. Where you need to go next isn't to become a better pixel artist. It's to specialize, and to understand the requirements of your specialty. If you are making graphics for a videogame, it takes more than how many colors you can use. It requires understanding what a videogame is, what it does, and your part in how it does it. A creation - any creation, not just games - is something which works towards this perfect sphere. No bumps. No dents. If you make something that contributes to that sphere, you get a perfectly smooth surface. Everything works together. But if you deliver something which is at odds - something which doesn't do something as well as it should, or too well for what it's suppose to, it can ruin that perfect surface. The function of this artwork is extremely poor - some of the worst I've ever seen - while the style is far too grandeur for what it needs to be.

You need to create artwork that is something which realizes that it is a tactics game, that it is an amateur flash game. You've already created more classes than you need or will use and you don't even have a prototype working yet. You aren't being practical. You are flying out towards every half decent idea that crosses your desk without having a proper foundation to contain it, or without regard to how that idea fits into the grand scheme. For instance, you've got all these different classes because... well, because other games had these classes. You haven't considered exactly how each of them fit into the design other than the generic archetypes. I mean, if FFT had a thief class, then you need a thief class right? The problem is, you aren't creating something with the time and budget of FFT. You aren't going to be able to balance the game at all. You aren't going to be able to have that kind of depth because a) you don't currently have the talent and b) you aren't planning on going far enough with the game to see it through. You'll end up with a mish-mash of ideas stolen from a dozen different games that just don't fit together at all. A half assed smorgasbord.

Scale back, considerably. You are jumping every conceivable gun.

But that's design advice and this is a pixel art forum, which is another reason why I didn't want to go down that road. I only wanted to comment on what was there, and that was about two dozen different sprites that were virtually indistinguishable from each other.

so far, the only point youve made is that crowds are more difficult to see, which is common sense.  the images youve provided of my guys in a crowd are still easily readable to me, though they do take longer to see than when characters are spread out.
making these characters different colors and shapes will not solve that problem in our project or any project
do you have a solution to this problem in mind?

It won't solve your problem, no. But shapes and colors will go a long way to helping it. Truth be told, you want shorter characters so they won't overlap as much. You'd probably also benefit from 3D terrain, since rotation makes the physical relationships between units more explicit. Having fewer classes, which need to be identified would also make a huge difference. The less diversity you have to remember, they less you have to explicitly delineate.  You could design your maps so that grouping would be difficult, but that would impact the gameplay rather than being a purely graphical decision. Using harder outlines for the characters, and softening the dark internal lines would help. But the biggest difference would be a superior color scheme.

[big brother]

Ooh! Make me in the game, please! I wear a red sash and a turban with a feather and a gem in it and I'm real buff. Exciting!

[ptoing]

Sqorgar: You seriously need to cut back on your assy way of commenting. Also you tell people they are defensive when you acted extremely defensive in your thread with the boatshoeguys. I find what you are doing quite a bit pretentious. You think you know everything about what Adarias wants to do with this project and if he can pull it off or not. Also he never said that the colourscheme is final, it's one that can be changed. Just try to be more friendly and think twice before you write something. You are extremely condescending and at the samy time very paranoid, taking everything as a personal attack. Maybe you should go breathe some fresh air more often. In any case if you keep posting like you did up until now your stay on this forum wont be a permanent one. And don't reply to this in this thread, if you have problems with it pm me.

Adarias: Coming along nicely i think, the only one thing I agree with Sqorgar is more defined outlines would be better, on both characters and landscape edges.

[Frychiko]

I have no problems recognising the characters in a crowd, and you've made lots of progress on differentiating them, great job!
I agree with Sqorgar that it is quite ambitious for a first project (or first few?, haven't seen anything from you before, maybe I'm wrong), but I hope your team pulls through.
Having our own characters in the game? oooh!

[ndchristie]

sqorgar - thank you for your opinion, and please don't worry voicing it in the future.

ptoing and sqorgar - yes, i've been toying with stronger outlines, and made a few tests of the easy way (expanding them 1px outside what they are now), first using a non-aa'd white line, then a soft "white" line, then a non-aa'd black line, then a soft "black" line, but none of them worked quite as nicely as i was hoping yet, partly because Fil and I liked different tests, and party because, when fullscreen, a double outline looked rediculous.  tomorrow, when i am less tired, im going to experiment with working within the existing sprites, darkenning the outer lines and lightening the inner lines as you had suggested.

general - ive been working much more with the values of the landscapes and am getting closer to a final look for the tiles, these also will be included in the update.  Also included will be placeholders for tall grass, which is about as exciting as it sounds, but is fairly important because there are several ways to do it and it would be great to hear people's opinions on the methods we are testing.
when i say croquis i mean any sort of sketch, though an industry-standard croquis, a nine-head-high figure done with pencil, then inked, reproduced in multiples, colored as variations with guache or aquarelle would be lovely as well

actual updates should follow either tomorrow or monday

just as a reminder, those interested in the game design should be sure to check our blog:
partisan-tb.blogspot.com/

[Sqorgar]

Sqorgar: You seriously need to cut back on your assy way of commenting.

Yes, I know. That's why I removed that post.  I only reposted it because he very obviously resented me removing it.

Also he never said that the colourscheme is final, it's one that can be changed.

I was more bothered by his priorities, I guess you could say. It only came out as an obsession with color schemes because I didn't want to commit to a full scale discussion about it. Oh well...

You are extremely condescending and at the samy time very paranoid, taking everything as a personal attack.

I thought this was a particularly funny statement. See if you can spot the hypocrisy!

Maybe you should go breathe some fresh air more often. In any case if you keep posting like you did up until now your stay on this forum wont be a permanent one. And don't reply to this in this thread, if you have problems with it pm me.

I'm going to do it here for two reasons. The first is that you aren't the only person who is going to respond to my post, and I wanted to publicly underscore the fact that I deleted the post in the first place, only to post again by reluctance. I will take full responsibility for the content of that post, but I won't be tar and feathered on behalf of my judgement in posting it.

The second is to save you a little time and excuse myself from the forum on my own terms. I don't really like being threatened all that much, and the line I crossed is one I would gladly cross again. My critique was harsh indeed, but it was a critique none the less. It has value, regardless of how hard it is to hear.  If anybody here wants a similar critique on their work, they'll have to ask for it through PM. I'll not volunteer one in the future.

[Feron]

I think ptoing wanted you to pm so you wouldnt derail this thread even more.  All i've seen from your posts are trouble. 

Adarias - about the "create your own NPC" are you going to create the sprites or, if we are good enough and match your style, could we create them?  I also think the Link sprite i think snake made at the top would be a cool thing to add in, he sorta fits the era and would be a cool reference to some of the legendary games.

[Meta|Fox]

I also think the Link sprite i think snake made at the top would be a cool thing to add in, he sorta fits the era and would be a cool reference to some of the legendary games.

Only if they want to be sued I'm afraid.

*working on NPC *

[Feron]

Only if they want to be sued I'm afraid.

Sued for having a character in green with a fairy?  I doubt they'd find a lawyer to back their case of sprite in green, unless nintendo own the right to green clothes?
  Obviously you don't have to say its link, but most gamers would recognise it.

[ndchristie]

Adarias - about the "create your own NPC" are you going to create the sprites or, if we are good enough and match your style, could we create them?

i know that most of the people here are very talented, much better than i am in many cases, so feel free to pixel a character instead of showing a drawing, but understand 2 things.  First - every character that is battle-ready has 120+ frames of animation, so unless you are feeling very industrious, Im going to be doing the lion's share of the pixelling, anyway.  Second, the sprites as they are now are still WIP and constantly changing, so what you pixel now might be irrelevant tomorrow. see the small update at the end of this post..
 

I also think the Link sprite i think snake made at the top would be a cool thing to add in, he sorta fits the era and would be a cool reference to some of the legendary games.

Being that the game is to be 100% free and it is easy to not contain direct references to names etc, i think it would be a fine easteregg if snake should like to have it in

i cant wait to see what you guys might be cooking up, theres so much creativity on this board

----------------------------------------------

UPDATE:
Ive been doing experiemnts with the outlines/inside lines of the characters, and so far i like the results.  here is an animated gif, and i think you can see which is the newer:



I also have been experimenting with the tiles, and am equally pleased:



both the tiles and the characters still have a long way to go, but i am happy thusfar with the progress.  Certain comments have not been addressed in this animation, but dont worry, i am listening.

The hair is green so that the shades are easier to identify when Fil puts in his recoloring system.  the hair of the characters in the earlier images is recolored much the way it will be in the game.  the 3 shades of Red and 3 of Blue also are setup to be changed, and the 2 shades of the skin.  this is so that we do not have to hand-recolor every single piece an incredible number of times to attain the level of variation we desire

i believe i mentioned earlier that i was working on tall grass, and you can see some of it in the first picture, but it is also a walkable tile that the player can move between, and it will be animated.  here is a still shot of characters standing in the tall grass:



Thanks a lot to ptoing for helping out, i am currently using a system where each grass tuft is a single object on each tile, and i think that this is fine for what i am trying to accomplish with tall grass, but what do others think?  Ptoing i know wants me to use the house of cards method, with a piece of the object in front of the character and another piece behind, but this would require some real alterations to the coding thusfar to allow for this, so unless people really do not like this look, i dont think we will pursue that as a course of action yet.

please keep the C+C coming!  Thanks everybody for the help!

[big brother]

It's looking great! The outlines and the new tiles contrast nicely! When you're satisfied with the sprite style, let me know, and I'll make an NPC.

[Feron]

The new tiles are awesome!!  the changes to the sprites also enhance there beauty.

I think maybe a few more oldschool game sprite eastereggs would be a cool thing to include, obviously nothing that will stick out too much like megaman or sonic LOL.

Anways I'll try and create a tophat character soon, but im pretty busy recently.

[AdamAtomic]

VAST improvement adarias, very nice stuff, eager to see how the grass turns out!

[fil_razorback]

Time for a town & shops mockup !

Before I show you anything, I want you to know that :
-The sword is a placeholder. Adarias has not made icons yet
-The map is a placeholder. We'll show the town, not a seaside thing ^^
-Some things are not pixel art



Browsing the town, from building to building :


Entering a shop :


Buying :



C+C about the interface is welcome

[Sqorgar]

Ive been doing experiemnts with the outlines/inside lines of the characters, and so far i like the results.  here is an animated gif, and i think you can see which is the newer:

I also have been experimenting with the tiles, and am equally pleased:

I think the difference is like night and day. The soft internal lines with the hard outline really make a huge amount of difference. For the tiles, the shading literally brings out the definition. The one thing you should think about is making the ramp tiles noticably darker than the flat ground tiles, and make ramps one direction noticably darker than the other. The definition of the land is literally defined by the negative space. You aren't creating the three dimensional shape by what's there, but from the shadows themselves. As such, the ramps create sort of a muddled look - especially towards the bottom where you've got two ramps going two different directions on two different planes. It creates a visual confusion - but that may just be because you've got a ramp leading up into a mismatched ramp, so it doesn't flow together as well.  The ramps are not so much an equal part of the landscape, but a transition between layers.

It's like... have you ever seen a map for a roguelike game? Most of them represent it as simple gray squares with something like blue doors. But if you don't fill in the doors and just use a floor tile, the map looks over busy and kind of... spirally, if that makes any sense. If you fill in doors with wall tiles, the map feels too claustrophobic. But explicitly defining the doors as neither wall nor floor, you create this sort of node based map with connectivity. It compartmentalizes each room while still creating a distinct impression of how the floorplan flows. It's really weird to explain though.

And you might consider - I've never tried this out nor know if your engine can handle it, so this is just a brainstorm thing - adding a 1%-2% darkening to each layed (0% on the top layer, 2% on the next down, 4% on the one below that) creating a sort of darkening depth thing. That may look funny doing it dynamically, but I've created some (non-isometric) game art that did it manually - I knew the floor would always be exactly four tiles back, so I had a different set of tiles at a different darkness and scale to give the illusion of depth... plus, it paralax scrolled really nicely. The trick is, and I've gotten in trouble for saying this before, to make it almost invisible to the naked eye but explicit enough that the effect works.

i believe i mentioned earlier that i was working on tall grass, and you can see some of it in the first picture, but it is also a walkable tile that the player can move between, and it will be animated.  here is a still shot of characters standing in the tall grass:

I don't have time to comment on this right now, but I'd recommend making the grass shorter (about waist high) and use a harder outline where it overlaps the characters - not black, but a harder dark green, maybe.

[fil_razorback]

And you might consider - I've never tried this out nor know if your engine can handle it, so this is just a brainstorm thing - adding a 1%-2% darkening to each layed (0% on the top layer, 2% on the next down, 4% on the one below that) creating a sort of darkening depth thing. That may look funny doing it dynamically, but I've created some (non-isometric) game art that did it manually - I knew the floor would always be exactly four tiles back, so I had a different set of tiles at a different darkness and scale to give the illusion of depth... plus, it paralax scrolled really nicely. The trick is, and I've gotten in trouble for saying this before, to make it almost invisible to the naked eye but explicit enough that the effect works.

That's a good idea. I've just talked about it with Adarias, we'll make it but not always black (blue ambiant, red ambient...). ^^
I'll redo the map display code including this new feature...basically it's just some hexadecimal calculation.
Thank you =)

[ndchristie]

Yeah, I have worked on a project that considered implementing this system before (its basically trying to emulate the atmospheric fog that many 3d programs can generate), but we were working with GM and the system could not handle it.  I hadnt thought of applying it to this project though until you mentioned it, thanks for the idea

----------

Also, this really belongs in the employment section, but i figured since we alreay have a thread here im just going to put this out:

We need portrait artists for this game.  My style of illustration/drawing works fine for concept art and traditional art, but this game calls for a style that is beyond me really.  Please PM me or Fil if you are interested in helping out, and include samples of the level of work that you know you can commit to.  We do not currently have a specific style that we intend to reach for, but we know that realism and my personal styles of representational abstraction simply do not fit, we are looking for something a bit more jpop im afraid (all of the older members cringe).  Anything from the smooth, 'simple' style of Nippon Ichi's artists (examp: http://www.dengekionline.com/climan/images/phantom_main.jpg) to the almost Mucca-esque softly rendered artwork from the Suikoden series (examp: http://www.dignews.com/admin/screenshoot/suikodeniv_artwork_03.jpg) would be fine, and anything in-between, as well as if you have your own personal style that still captures the feeling of game art.
As far as exactly what the game calls for, if you decide to join you will need to do a series of busts, all of the same portion of the character, which should be large enough to look good when scaled to fit into half of the window (you can see the text boxes?  the two halves of the space above them should be able to inculde on portrait each.  here are the 2 zones:
Beyond all that, you may use your judgement.  Thanks for reading

[Darien]

You're breaking my heart, Adarias.

But the new stronger outlines look much better.  The tall grass could stand to have some more contrast, maybe?  It looks all blurry and hazy to me, and when I look at it it takes me a second to realize what it is.

[Larwick]

Absolutely beautiful. 
Am i right in thinking that some or all of the non-pixelart elements of the shop will later become pixelart? 
If i ever have a load of free time when you're more sure about the sprites i'd be honoured to be able to make one too.
Good luck with the stuff you have to do next!

[ndchristie]

Larwick - perhaps, perhaps not, it depends on whether they can be pixelled to look better than they do now.

more updates on the pixel-art a bit later on this week, but for now, a continuation of the portrait discussion :

First off, thanks to those who responded to my post, support is always good

Second, this is just something to guage yourself by : this is a sketch of what we are planning to throw out, so we are looking for something similar to this, but better (and of course colored properly). 



Thanks again,

Nate

[Helm]

I'm forseeing huge problems with style clash. Never was personally a fan of pixel art and cg-portraits on top, I prefer when they're all made of the same thing, even sharing specific palette colors. I like cohesion and continuity. Furthermore, would you like specific critique on the placeholder portrait art?

[ndchristie]

I'm forseeing huge problems with style clash. Never was personally a fan of pixel art and cg-portraits on top, I prefer when they're all made of the same thing, even sharing specific palette colors. I like cohesion and continuity. Furthermore, would you like specific critique on the placeholder portrait art?

Feel free to critique the sketch, just keep in mind it's a sketch.  much of it will change (the colors, eyes looking the wrong direction, outline done quickly and badly, etc).  I trust in your judgement though.

Also, the portraits will be pixelart, not CG, but i simply havent been able to get a good-enough looking lineart to work from out of my own head, which is why we are looking for someone with game-art type drawing abilities

[Flame]

I really like how this is progressing, might make a npc for kicks ._.

Good luck and keep motivated

[Froli]

Made an edit on Xion Night's suggestion about "second from the left has a wierd butt"


Anyway, keep up the awesome work. I want to see this done in the future

[ndchristie]

froli - yes, the butt was changed a while ago, and just not pictured yet.

thanks to everyone who showed interest in joining as a portraiter, we have chosen Tremulant for the postion.  We hope his talent and enthusiasm will bring a lot to the team and the project!

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update following later tonight, or possibly tomorrow depending.

[CrematedPumpkin]

Would it be at all awkward if I were to say I love you? 
You actually almost inspired me to try making RPG-like sprites (although there are, in my opinion, too many people trying  ), but luckily for most everyone I failed so miserably that it doesn't even meet my low standards for myself...heh.
I should very much like if you could find someone really good to do pixeled portraits (I know you're trying  ) as opposed to some other media, because all of this pixel work is really impressive. I seem to remember you being incredibly good with portraits, why don't you try them?

[ndchristie]

Creamy - Tremulant here is a wonderfull pixel-artist and the portraits will be pixelled (in fact, it's necessary that they be so that they can easily be recolored with the code Fil has made so nice)
I did try them myself, hand-drawn and pixelled, and a mix of both, but i jsut cannot get the hang of this style of artwork.  oh well, i will learn, but until that day we are glad to have superb artists like Trem willing to help

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Update!
FINALLY fixed the sets, mostly to take nearly all of the comments into consideration.  here is an image containing the newly done versions:



not so exciting, since you had seen much of this already, but you can see this process of finding a nice style is nearing completion.  I am, however, realising that some units, particulary the ones wearing ots of dark gray, may not have enough of a team color to be as easily identified as i would hope.  I may look into the possibiliy of having the grays change a bit from team to team as well as the 2 uniform colors, sometimes being lighter or darker or more brown or more blue-gray etc.

Also, ignore the placement of the wood (in this case a bridge) tile, but if anyone has any comments on it atm id love to hear. 

I dont think we have any functioning bridges in the game.  sure we can make them visually, but we will never have 2 characters sharing a tile one below and one beneath the other so far as i know because the sorting gives us headaches just thinking about it, and ive never played a tactical game where the ability to have bridges had a notably positive impact on the gameplay, more often then not they were just a frustration to movement and visuals.



Also, a slight update to the tall grass, its still very much a WIP.
Darien, its interesting you should say to add contrast, i didnt hear you say that the first time.  I actually thought taking contrast away would make it more readable, but maybe i was wrong? anyway i might as well post this now since ive gone and done it, but later i might try your suggestion
Another note on this - several people have suggested i bring the grass height lower, and there will be many types of grass that are not this high, but this really is a test of seeing how high i can make it while having the characters visible.  once i get this look down, shorter grasses will come easily


Also, a general shout-out, i still am completely blank when it comes to ways to make the cloaks look different in a way that represents the job.  if anyone has any idea, do let me know

[Takai Soyokaze]

I'm digging the purple-grayish grass, I would use lighter yellow. It seems like all your tiles have strange coloring choices, and it just doesn't work.

[ndchristie]

I'm digging the purple-grayish grass, I would use lighter yellow. It seems like all your tiles have strange coloring choices, and it just doesn't work.

Takai, i feel as though you have useful things to say, but time and time again i cannot understand what you are talking about. 

When i read your post there, i read it as "direct positive comment, I would vague suggestion. It seems like vague negative comment, and vague negative comment." 

While i certainly dont mind negative comments, what i would love would be if that read instead "direct positive comment, but I would direct suggestion.  It seems like direct negative comment, and direct suggestion"

[Sherman Gill]

-Putting words into other peoples mouth, excuse me -

[Peppermint Pig]

Nice tiles. You are moving along well with these. Very psychedellic tinge, compared to other iso tactical contemporaries. The stone surfaces look great. I think the tall grass has too much contrast, but that's really my personal taste speaking. I'd keep using the hue shifting techniques, but try to find ways to reduce the contrast so that your characters don't blend away into the background too much... only other advice I have is to keep working at reducing generic cubism to the individual tiles. It's not about destroying your grid altogether, but adding curves into a tile space where surfaces and sides meet so a more organic or soft-edged (for shapes) look is obtained. Awesome stuff.

[DrDerekDoctors]

Dude, your gui totally blows.

But seriously, it's a little boring. Why not some lovely bejewelled scrollwork around the edges and a transparent background?

Just doesn't seem in keeping with the setting of the game.

[ndchristie]

Why not some lovely bejewelled scrollwork around the edges and a transparent background?

Because i think that kind of thing is ugly? lol.  if anyone else wants to design a GUI, be my guest, but so long as me and Fil are doing it it's going to stay clean and simple.  personal preference.

[Jad]

For me, it is rather the thick black edges that draws my interest to the bottom of the screen while it should be focused at what happens on the top, and that's all for me.

But yeah. I'd suggest that you lessen the contrast a wee bit since high contrasts is something that catches your eye. Hence, the black text is nice imo, while the edges, which are always there, kind of takes over the whole bottom even though they're not really a detail of interest.

But ugly? Hell no. I especially like the little "H" gem. That's all the bling you need to get me going :>

[ndchristie]

For me, it is rather the thick black edges that draws my interest to the bottom of the screen while it should be focused at what happens on the top, and that's all for me.

But yeah. I'd suggest that you lessen the contrast a wee bit since high contrasts is something that catches your eye. Hence, the black text is nice imo, while the edges, which are always there, kind of takes over the whole bottom even though they're not really a detail of interest.

Yeah, the text-box is definately made to draw attention, hense th high contrast, but it is a bit distracting.  I think though that it shouldnt be *too* much of an issue since the boxes will only be displayed when they are currently supposed to be the focus, and hidden when not.  they are on here just to test how they look with the tiles, which is important.  I will look into the contrast thing though, you make an excellent point.