[WIP] Partisan Tactics Battles : Animations, woah

[ndchristie]

The game concpet being somewhat similar to FFT, this is a set of all of the male none-character job classes, colored to be your party's troops.  Heads are unique to the person, not the class, and are laid over the body as a separate image.  i used a couple of different heads here just for the sake of breaking the consistancy (at first they all had the same head and looked a bit odd all together like this)


and for those interested in the jobs themselves.....

Within a job tree, the none-character soldiers may upgrade themselves 3 times.  Other skills (theft, beast-riding, oration, etc) can be learned by any job class by accomplishing certain feets as part of the respective guild's journeyman quests.  Characters have classes unique to themselves but may also join guids.  hope it makes sense

im looking mostly for crits on the appearences but crits on the system itself are also welcome

[Zach]

reminds me of ragnarok, but smaller

*cheers*

[The Cold Mage]

nice sprites but its really hard to distinguish one job class from another. some of them have identical details. and i'm not sure if its the color choices but the details kind of blend together. you might also want to add a few more head options.

[Gil]

I like how you merge two classes' clothing into the next, but it kinda makes several classes look too close. It's more realistic, and it'll look quite nice in a game, but I'm afraid there might be confusion once you're actually playing, when you need to guess the class of an enemy, especially if they use another pallette for team colours. Chemist, doctor and engineer are too close for example. Same with alchemist and master surgeon

Also, the outfits are a little basic on the higher classes. I dunno, but I'd expect some really fancy armor on a champion, not a bleached knight. That brings me to the pallette. As mentioned, it kinda reminds me of Ragnarok, which isn't basically a pro, since that pallette is so overdone. Why not go with alot more vibrancy in the colours?


I really like the diagram, though I'm not sure I'd do it the same way. There's some fuzzy naming going on. Change "Hero" to something like "Rebel" perhaps? "Hawkeye" is too creative and doesn't fit in as a name, perhaps something like "Assassin" would be better fit. "Alchemist" of a "Chemist" upgrade, it doesn't seem to make sense after engineer. perhaps "Scientist"? I think you can drop the "Master" on "Master Surgeon" and the "Arch" on "Archmage" ("Wizard" would be even better), since those seem out of place. Why have a master surgeon if there isn't a regular surgeon? Why have an Archmage, if there isn't any normal mages? I'm not too keen on a priest being a combination of a chemist and a magician either. I'd go with a scheme where you have a basic "adventurer", which splits into "chemist", "archer", "warrior" and "cleric", since then you can make a "crusader" in between "cleric" and "warrior", and a "doctor" in between "cleric" and "chemist". In between those you'd have your "priest" and "bishop". Still not the best though, there's something inherently wrong with the hexagonal class system you have. I'd have to give it all a little more thought to come up with something decent though...

[AdamAtomic]

nm, Gil pretty much covered it all.  I'd just like to add that i really love the palette, I don't think it looks like Rag all that much, more like the original concept art for Final Fantasy Tactics (forgot artists name at the moment) - great tribute!  the costume design overlaps are fairly confusing though!

[Darien]

As said very nice but too similar.   My crit on the system is that you only branch out once... really what is the point of having the last class upgrade if their is only the choice of that class suped up?  I guess a large stat bonus but seems a little pointless to me...

[.TakaM]

they all have blue eyes! hitler would be proud to some extent

[Opacus]

That is SO sweet.
I have no comment......

[DrDerekDoctors]

Hmm, gotta' agree that they look too close. Plus differentiating them through hair style/color just seems weird and (in gameplay terms, which I know you don't like to discuss but tough cheese ) will mean you don't recognise a soldier from his appearance because when he changed job it involved a shampoo, set and dye.

And if the changing hair is just a random thing and not indicitive of job but merely to make the image more varied, then there's *really* very little different between a buncha' jobs.

Personally as a player, I'd prefer like 9 job classes that really looked different than 19 which didn't.

[Meta|Fox]

As people advance in a game they really want to look a lot cooler then when they started. Make your classes progressively more extravagant. at the moment they all look to similar.

No crits on the actual art its self

[ndchristie]

Ok, so what im hearing is.....:

Classes dont particularly fit in some cases, so the names could use a real switching

Many classes are simply much too similar; especially in the outer tiers....
'hero' came from the idea that most heros are unbound, wandering mercenaries, but it doesnt really make too much sense i suppose
I like the idea of cleric, and that does make tihngs a lot more interesting and fit better

...Which should be much more ornate and extravagant

Everyone likes a badass, but the last upgrade should be presented a choice

Dr, what are you trying to sya about the hair?  Each person will keep the same head from the moment you get him to the end of the game, the different heads here are just to break up the monotony of having over 20 of the same person, and yes there will be many more theres just a few here

So now ive got another question then, how exactly do people think the costumes should be changed/improved?  Ive got some ideas, but id like to hear from you-all

Oh and i forgot to mention; shields (which can be equiped by any class reachable by a warrior) are displayed over the side of the sprite, and the maximum size and style of the shield depends on the class, but it might also add confusion since theres no rule against a paladin carying a tiny shield

[Dhaos]

The sprites' proportions and colors are quite good (reminds me of legend of mana coloring) However like others mentioned, the designs are too similiar to each other. I would suggest picking a few deatils for each sprite and make them stand out alot more (wether its armor, the rob, a hat/helmet, etc) so each class looks a bit more different. you *might* try putting ornate symbols on the cloth representing some of the classes.

[ndchristie]

yeah the back of all the cloaks has a class-specific symbol, you cant see from this angle though

i worry about hats because of the real extent to which the character's hair and face (well... all the faces are the same here because i havent actually made the headsets yet) make a big difference in terms of recognition, but they would help a tremendous amount......hhmm

[Dhaos]

To remedy the 'hat' problem you could have uncovered portraits when a unit is selected? So the sprites could be hatted(?!) and the portraits could remain unique (doll system for portraits? I dunno something)

[ndchristie]

To remedy the 'hat' problem you could have uncovered portraits when a unit is selected? So the sprites could be hatted(?!) and the portraits could remain unique (doll system for portraits? I dunno something)

Brilliant, thats why i <3 forums



tried to address as many comments as possible, this also cycles through several Teams (sorry if its distracting), teams go : BuRd (you), BrGr (free/vagrant), YwRs (Kingdom of Circeny), PrBu (Lestegia City-States), and PkWt (Volkegrad Empire)

I havent yet touched a lot of things, and most still need hats.  i think that 2nd and 3rd tier will all have hats, and novice and first tier will not

final tier has been given a choice now (and so i end up with 8 more ranks); when the person has mastered their 2nd tier class they can choose between light and dark (light being gold and dark being dark).  Paladin (light) is now paired with Inquisitor (dark), Champion (light) is now paired with Warlord (dark), and so on. havent touched the chemist classes at all, they will probably get a complete reworking

still very much a WIP

I also began to animate them using the old walking base, Novice, Cleric, and Warrior (with messed up shoes...>.<) (these are all done from the same old character of mine, which has been on my pixeljoint for a while)  Also, for fun, a knight with basic shield equipped:

[Gil]

I see improvement already! (I still don't like the pallette, but it's stylish and all, so you might get away with it, don't mind me)

You really hit a soft spot of mine with that class system and the merging of equipment, which I think is a great idea by itself. I really have to restrain myself from not going on a rant. I'm now off to dissect medieval society to get a better class structure for myself to throw in my pile of unused ideas. Thanks for the inspiration.

[AdamAtomic]

very nice improvements!  re: the walk cycle, the legs appear to be spread apart some as they walk, like there is a space between their feet even during the walking.  Also, the shoulders don't move at ALL - even a little shift there would help add a lot of perspective and believability to both the motion and the shape and design of the armor.

awesome stuff!

[Darien]

Looking good.  Here's a thought:  since you have characters able to become a second tier class from two different classes, maybe have the first tier class determine which branch the character will become. 

For example, say you have both archers and chemist becoming engineers.  But if you are an archer first, you combine enigeer attributes to become a gunman.  If you are a chemist, you combine that with engineering to be like I dunno a biological weaponist.  There's no choice at the end (just the beginning) but I thought it would make for an interesting class system.  Just a thought.

Sprites look great, my only concern is that the color swaps may not be drastic enough for quick and easy distinction.

[Billeh]

Great stuff adarias (inspirational). Most of the concerns have been said, but great improvments

[Rerg1]

Man those are nice. You mkaing a game with them?

[ptoing]

To me the eyecolour pixels look more like eyeshadow, mainly because they are over a black and a white pixel. I guess the white pixel is supposed to be a highlight in the pupil, but it does not read as such to me at all.

[Dusty]

Looking great, though one crit I noticed on the walk cycle is at the peak of their right legs movement outwards, it looks as though their leg sticks too much out to their right. Maybe move that leg inwards a little more when it moves.

[ndchristie]

Man those are nice. You making a game with them?

that depends; anyone know a good GBA coder who isnt busy?

To me the eyecolour pixels look more like eyeshadow, mainly because they are over a black and a white pixel. I guess the white pixel is supposed to be a highlight in the pupil, but it does not read as such to me at all.

The black pixel is the pupil, the white pixel the white of the eye.  color above is to give the eye an accent, so in a way it is much like eyeshadow, though in the portraits of course they will have normal eyes (except for characters wearing eyeshadow, which of course will have eyeshadow.....).  The more typical eyes that i tried out simply didnt work for me.

For example, say you have both archers and chemist becoming engineers.  But if you are an archer first, you combine enigeer attributes to become a gunman.  If you are a chemist, you combine that with engineering to be like I dunno a biological weaponist.  There's no choice at the end (just the beginning) but I thought it would make for an interesting class system.  Just a thought.

My only worry there would be that the person would really want to have a choice at the end; i dont like it when i make a decision in a game that i wasnt informed of prior to making it.  Theres a big enough difference within the joint classes because of the original class (warriors can use shields so a crusader that was a warrior can use a shield, but clerics learn basic magics so a crusader that was a cleric can use basic magics.  crusaders themselves learn low-grade magic attacks as well as fighting techniques, and the final tier gives them very powerful light/dark attacks)

a slight update, for ive nothing else to do:

[Helm]

the chestplate you're using seems to be for amptly-endowed females. Might want to tone down the highlights or reshape.

[DrDerekDoctors]

Ooh, far prefer the variety in those latest ones. Very nice indeed. Nice continuation of design elements down the job-tree, too.

[Sohashu]

I think that you should be able to be dark at any stage of the system.  Also, I would like to see At least something put in there relating to dariens Idea.  And just as a thought, maybe as a novice, what happens affects their light or dark path, but that seems difficult. 

[ndchristie]

Until the final tier, non-characters are neutral, neither light nor dark but capable of both.  Only when they have become masters of their art must they make a decision between the 2 and attain the final rank.  I am 100% against the idea of having events before the final class change make the decision for the player because i think that in a situation where reaching the final class is so tiresome, i have no intention of forcing the player into taking a paladin when they wanted to have an inquisitor, especially given that the two classes become very different from that point on.

And yeah, i probably should make the chest plate less breast-y, if for no other reason than i dont want to have to make the girls even bigger >.< (you heard me folks, im trying to keep a sense of modesty in an anime-styled game  )

[Sohashu]

OK.  I just had a few Ideas.  BUt maybe breeding?(lol breeding).  For example if A male inquisitor has a BAby with a female archer or something, their child would be a mix. 

Maybe to further differentiate the teams or dark/lightness, you could have different features.   Like pallid skin, tats, slightly different clothe design.

Hows this being released.  I wanna play it. 

[ndchristie]

OK.  I just had a few Ideas.  BUt maybe breeding?(lol breeding).  For example if A male inquisitor has a BAby with a female archer or something, their child would be a mix. 

Maybe to further differentiate the teams or dark/lightness, you could have different features.   Like pallid skin, tats, slightly different clothe design.

Hows this being released.  I wanna play it. 

The story as it Ive got it in my head takes place over the course of about 4 years (year of the Cattle, Tiger, Rabbit, and ending with Dragon), so 'breeding' (as you so quaintly put it ) is out of the question (it also feels a bit rediculous?)
i guess im sorta missing the point of all your suggestions, im not sure what they would accomplish.  perhaps you could explain why you want all of this? to me it sounds like nonesense.

Currently this game has no programme; just a story framework and the beginnings of the designs; what you are seeing is the soldier design process.  All (well most of) the characters are already figured out and drawn but not sprited.  When i find a GBA programmer interested, then ill put out release info, otherwise its a for-fun (probably doomed) effort with little goal other than keeping me amused and giving me a lot of small-sized tactical sprites to work from if people (like DrDerekDoctors who im beginning a project with using a similar graphical style) want to work on stuff.

[Andy Tran]

 Those are some good updates Adrias. Something that kept on scaring me are the eyes. So every character in this game will be angry? Angry Fantasy Tactics? I would make variations of the facial features, not just templates of angry faces. 

[ndchristie]

Yeah it hought about the eyes before, but i also thought then that a person going into battle with the express purpose of killing lots of people wouldnt really be walking in with a big grin.  Unlesss people think its a real issue, i think all guys will be pissed off, and the girls will have a slightly less harsh but still not happy look

[Andy Tran]

 Heh, good idea. I say it's a good choice.

[Helm]

Adarias that point of view would have more merit if the game was a harsh and gritty realistic battle simulator. But seeing how it is a Tactics thing, there's no violence in it. There's no killing. There's pretty colours and animations and numbers popping up above anime sprite heads and people doing a full 720 degree turn about themselves and then disappearing when they're 'killed'. Now I don't know on how many of these genre cliches you'll be faithful to (for all I know there might be super-deformed DECAPITATIONS and arrows realistically sticking in flesh and blood and battle awful) but seeing the design aesthetic so far, it seems to me this is heading towards nintendo feel. In this case, the characters might as well fight with a huge grin on their face, they're in fantasy-land where nobody ever gets hurt.

[ndchristie]

Adarias that point of view would have more merit if the game was a harsh and gritty realistic battle simulator. But seeing how it is a Tactics thing, there's no violence in it. There's no killing. There's pretty colours and animations and numbers popping up above anime sprite heads and people doing a full 720 degree turn about themselves and then disappearing when they're 'killed'. Now I don't know on how many of these genre cliches you'll be faithful to (for all I know there might be super-deformed DECAPITATIONS and arrows realistically sticking in flesh and blood and battle awful) but seeing the design aesthetic so far, it seems to me this is heading towards nintendo feel. In this case, the characters might as well fight with a huge grin on their face, they're in fantasy-land where nobody ever gets hurt.

im not sure i really follow?

[Helm]

What bit is giving you trouble?

[Filax_666]

Helm's got a point there...




...besides, a good game must have blood.

[ndchristie]

What bit is giving you trouble?

Im just not sure where you got the idea that because it was a tactical rpg with more traditionaly rpg sprites (as opposed to realistic), that theres no violence or killing.  of course there is, (its a tactical rpg!)  you cut someone, they bleed, their hp reaches 0 they die, fall down. theres no reason that, just because the art is rpg sprites, that they should be made happy and stupid. 
In addition, even if death did take the form of spinning in circles and vanishing, if the 'death' is real to the characters, why would they be happy about it?  If the death and violence isnt taken seriously by the characters, they wont be taken seriously by the players, and the game and the story lose whatever importance they may have had

[Helm]

I don't think I've played any tactics game where the effect of death was attempted to have visceral impact. Even for the purposes of the story, I saw anime people be removed from what amounts to a drawn-out game of chess. The art style and other anime-centric conventions made the games so detached from any attempt at providing space for human drama that the stories themselves suffered even for the little they tried to provide. I'm glad you are trying something different, I fear you'll have to battle the art style you've chosen a little bit to get any of these aspects of death and dying to feel strong in your game. Good luck.

[goat]

I don't think I've played any tactics game where the effect of death was attempted to have visceral impact.

Fallout Tactics.  Unless you meant to say animefantasyclusterbang themed tactics games, in which case no, there aren't :x which would be exactly why it would be so badass if Adarias pulled it off.

[Ryuria]

That is so awesome.

Do you mind if I try the style later? (Not gonna edit yours)

[DrDerekDoctors]

I don't think I've played any tactics game where the effect of death was attempted to have visceral impact.

Never played Vandal Hearts then? The characters positively PISS blood when they die.

[Helm]

No but I'll try to find it. Fallout Tactics was a good pick too. No anime people in that one.

[ndchristie]

Ok, was just wondering

i know its going to be an uphill battle, but i enjoy working in this style and frankly i think that im a lot better at this than anything else, so ill have better luck moving away from realism in the soldiers/characters themselves

Final fantasy tactics did a fairly good job of keeping the actual drama going, at least for characters that mattered.  With any luck i wont end up with vandal-hearts (rediculous fountain of red pixels followed by a wierd stretch-and-vanishing deal)

as death is concerned, and depending on how much the programmer (if i find one) wants to do, my plan is to have characters that have been wounded to 10% lose the ability to attack, at 0 they lose the ability to move more than 1 square per turn and their normal hp is replaced with a critical bar starting at (50% - excess damage).  if the character is healed to 100% of the critical bar, he stands back up with (1 hp + excess healing points). if his critical bar is completely depleted, dead forever.  if the excess damage done is more than 50% of your max hp, your are just killed outright, so make sure you dont put weakling troops where they can get smashed, or youll need to hire newer, weaker troops.  i was also thinking that owning critically wounded enemies would give no experience, but it would give things like trophies etc.  MAYBE it could be made so that wherever a wounded person moves there is a small trail of blood left, because that looked cool when the wounded wiegraf crawled out leaving blood behind before becoming a demon.

Oh and i have a question for the general masses : should the female set have the girls wearing similar uniforms so that calss identification is easy, or should they bbe wearing completely different uniforms to add to the variety?

[Dave]

In my opinion, no, the female costumes shouldn't be too similar.  But, you should still be able to tell what is what.  A Knight should look like a Knight, y'know?    Sorry, kinda getting into stating the obvious.  But yeah. 

[Meta|Fox]

if his critical bar is completely depleted, dead forever.  if the excess damage done is more than 50% of your max hp, your are just killed outright, so make sure you don't put weakling troops where they can get smashed, or you'll need to hire newer, weaker troops

.

Any rpg game in which things "die forever" is going to get very annoying. it means unless your particular good or very careful you will need to spend money and effort on replacing troops after every battle. not only that but the fact that in a game like this you will always be looking for the best combination of classes within your team. having "permenint death" in there will really make it hard to do this. and even if you manage to get your desired team together it could be ruined quite easily. Maybe I'm thinking of this game too much like FF:T but as i said, i think permenint death could ruin alot of the fun in this game.
Also,as well as having troops under your command would you also have your own permenant  personal character out there? one that can be defeated but never killed?
Apart from the permenant death thing its good to see you getting into the mechanics of the game and i love most of your ideas you've so far (the trailing blood would look so cool). if you need another artist for the game or some one to help with game mechanics id be very very happy to help.

[Xion]

Fire Emblem is a quite successful franchise with the dead forever theme. I've played a few of the old ones and, while I found the gameplay overall kinda lacking, the dead forever added depth and connection to the characters and story.
Well, anyway, I really like the look of yer sprites and wish ye luck on findin' that programmer. I'd really love to see this come to fruition.

It's nice to know that I'm not the only person to extensively plan out games without the programming knowledge.

[Ryumaru]

heh, i was just about to mention fire emblem. i think it makes you alot better at the game in general, making it so you either lose a character or get better. of course i suck at keeping them alive.

[Darion]

I don't think I've played any tactics game where the effect of death was attempted to have visceral impact.

Never played Vandal Hearts then? The characters positively PISS blood when they die.

HAHAHA, I was just about to mention Vandal Hearts. That is the craziest tactical rpg i've ever played.

I just wanted to say how great all of these are. Loving the colors, too. My favorite is the guy up top, left corner, with the dark robe and helmet.

 I really hope this becomes a game.

[ndchristie]

Not so much an update on the jobs, ive looked at them too long and need to take a break, but i did try out some terrain

these here for crits etc

graham if you like these can be used in the magician/demon project i did them because i was bored ^^

[big brother]

It's interesting how heavily your stuff relies on optical mixing. When I zoom up on these tiles, I have trouble recognizing what they represent, but at 100% it's pretty straightfoward. You might want to use a separate tile for the raised areas (like you did with the buttes).